Chuck,
> The H-1B
program is a contrived market. It is like subsidies to farmers,
including large
industrialized farms.
I completely agree with this statement. But I wasn't talking about
importing programmers ... I was talking about importing code.
Sp
Sean Phelan
http://www.sqcn.com - Web Development
& Management by Sequoia Consulting
(321)698-7987
On 5/4/2010 7:34 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Sean,
I don't consider it the free market at work.
The H-1B
program is a contrived market. It is like subsidies to farmers,
including large
industrialized farms.
Another instance of the government jerking things
around. Toss them out.
Chuck Stevenson
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
----- Forwarded message from [email protected] -----
Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 12:49:50 -0400
From: Sean Phelan <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [mhvlug] Breaking into the Industry-Employment/Education
query.
To: [email protected]
Phil,
> This is all part of the Wal*Marting of America. We're exporting
all
jobs except for the very top executives. An economy can't survive
> with only people flipping burgers to each other. Please write to
your
congresscritter and your senators, and demand an immediate
> end to the H-1B visa program. It has been fraudulent from the very
beginning -- there never was a tech worker shortage; it was all
> contrived to bring in foreign workers and break our wages.
Consider
doing like I'm going to do from now on, and never vote for
> anyone on the democrat or republican line -- only third party
candidates. The two entrenched parties need to be destroyed, and
> something less corrupt brought in to replace them. Think about it!
There may be many good reasons to kick the bums out, but job loss in
knowledge
work fields is not one them. This is the free market at work - and I
hate to be
on the losing end of it, but I understand the why just fine.
Someone in India can go to college, study hard, come out with some
math/programming experience, and work for an American company for a
nice wage
(by Indian standards), although much less than a comparable American
gets.
Why/when does this work? When the cutural distinction of actually
BEING an
American doesn't add any value.
Exporting Call Centers has been a bit of a flop, and sales will likely
not go
over well. Graphic design can go if the American client isn't too
picky about
their tastes.
Programming/webdev can go when the specs are simple and straightforward
- ie,
write a Joomla/drupal/wordpress plugin that does XYZ, or take a PSD web
mockup
and turn it into actual HTML/CSS, or troubleshoot why 2 browsers show
the same
page differently.
The only way for us to survive is to bring more value to the table.
Remember,
WE can also hire these same offshore guys to work for us and bring down
OUR
costs, while delivering a valuable service to our clients.
Slippery slope, I know, but not one we can really change while America
is rich
and other educated/english-speaking/educated countries are not.
Could we stop it? Not without changing the country. I'd rather see us
focus on
bringing back food production (quality issues) and lower-end
manufacturing
(China is poisoning it's peasants to send us cheap plastic), not
strictly for
economic reasons.
ERIC ... back to your original query, don't let me discourage you, of
course!
Has anyone mentioned the possibility of doing cell phone support for
end users?
As the smart phones get more complicated, I think this will be a
growing field,
and noone out there is truly qualified to do it right now. Computer
techs can
do some, but this is as much about business automation (making sure the
address
books sync up with the CRM system, etc)
The other possibilities that come to mind are AC programming - the big
climate-control systems have to be programmed, and that would dovetail
nicely
with your electrical backgroung.
Another one is home theater and home networking - simple stuff, package
it for
$200-300 installed, keep it wireless so the install is easy, and you
could get
some volume ... even train a 19-year-old to do some of the installs for
you
while you sell and plan.
Good luck!
Sp
Sean Phelan
VIRTUssist.com - Outsourced Administrative, Marketing, and Secretarial
support <http://www.VIRTUssist.com/>
http://www.sqcn.com
- Web
Development & Management by Sequoia Consulting
(321)698-7987
On 5/4/2010 11:14 AM, Phil M Perry wrote:
> On 5/3/2010 10:37 PM, Michael Quick wrote:
>> Another thing, an employer "trick" is to list everything
under the
>> sun "required" for the job so they can claim you do not meet
them
>> all. Then they can offer you less money. Hence it's prudent
to be
>> knowledgeable and explain that to employers, but I wouldn't
try to
>> bolster or actually meet them all.
>
> Actually, it's worse than that. It's a wide open secret in the
Tech
> world that the proper way to recruit is to load up the
requirements
> with anything plausibly related to the position. No one can
honestly
> state that they meet /all/ the requirements (except for those
> currently or formerly employed at that company), which gives the
> employer the opening to say "no Americans can meet these job
> requirements, so we need to get an Indian on an H-1B visa". All
> Indian staffing agencies are liars -- the stated skill set
consists of
> reading a book on the subject on the flight over -- but by the
time
> the employer discovers that, it's too late for them to back out.
> Besides, H-1Bs work for sweatshop wages, so employers can afford
the
> lower productivity or even have to hire two workers, and they
still
> come out ahead. No employer is willing to take a good, productive
> American worker and spend a week training them in the specific
> software the company uses -- they have to be skilled and ready to
go
> on Day One, which is bullshit. It's just an excuse not to pay
American
> workers what they're worth!
>
> This is all part of the Wal*Marting of America. We're exporting
all
> jobs except for the very top executives. An economy can't survive
with
> only people flipping burgers to each other. Please write to your
> congresscritter and your senators, and demand an immediate end to
the
> H-1B visa program. It has been fraudulent from the very beginning
--
> there never was a tech worker shortage; it was all contrived to
bring
> in foreign workers and break our wages. Consider doing like I'm
going
> to do from now on, and never vote for anyone on the democrat or
> republican line -- only third party candidates. The two entrenched
> parties need to be destroyed, and something less corrupt brought
in to
> replace them. Think about it!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mid-Hudson Valley Linux Users Group http://mhvlug.org
> http://mhvlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mhvlug
>
> Upcoming Meetings (6pm - 8pm) MHVLS
Auditorium
> May 5 - Crack and LLVM
> Jun 2 - Android
> Jul 7 - Patent Absurdity - The Movie
>
----- End forwarded message -----
Phil,
> This is all part of the Wal*Marting of America. We're exporting
all
jobs except for the very top executives. An economy can't survive
> with
only people flipping burgers to each other. Please write to your
congresscritter and your senators, and demand an immediate
> end to the
H-1B visa program. It has been fraudulent from the very beginning --
there never was a tech worker shortage; it was all
> contrived to bring
in foreign workers and break our wages. Consider doing like I'm going
to do from now on, and never vote for
> anyone on the democrat or
republican line -- only third party candidates. The two entrenched
parties need to be destroyed, and
> something less corrupt brought in to
replace them. Think about it!
There may be many good reasons to kick the bums out, but job loss in knowledge work fields is not one them. This is the free market at work - and I hate to be on the losing end of it, but I understand the why just fine.
Someone in India can go to college, study hard, come out with some math/programming experience, and work for an American company for a nice wage (by Indian standards), although much less than a comparable American gets.
Why/when does this work? When the cutural distinction of actually BEING an American doesn't add any value.
Exporting Call Centers has been a bit of a flop, and sales will likely not go over well. Graphic design can go if the American client isn't too picky about their tastes.
Programming/webdev can go when the specs are simple and straightforward - ie, write a Joomla/drupal/wordpress plugin that does XYZ, or take a PSD web mockup and turn it into actual HTML/CSS, or troubleshoot why 2 browsers show the same page differently.
The only way for us to survive is to bring more value to the table. Remember, WE can also hire these same offshore guys to work for us and bring down OUR costs, while delivering a valuable service to our clients.
Slippery slope, I know, but not one we can really change while America is rich and other educated/english-speaking/educated countries are not.
Could we stop it? Not without changing the country. I'd rather see us focus on bringing back food production (quality issues) and lower-end manufacturing (China is poisoning it's peasants to send us cheap plastic), not strictly for economic reasons.
ERIC ... back to your original query, don't let me discourage you, of course! Has anyone mentioned the possibility of doing cell phone support for end users? As the smart phones get more complicated, I think this will be a growing field, and noone out there is truly qualified to do it right now. Computer techs can do some, but this is as much about business automation (making sure the address books sync up with the CRM system, etc)
The other possibilities that come to mind are AC programming - the big climate-control systems have to be programmed, and that would dovetail nicely with your electrical backgroung.
Another one is home theater and home networking - simple stuff, package it for $200-300 installed, keep it wireless so the install is easy, and you could get some volume ... even train a 19-year-old to do some of the installs for you while you sell and plan.
Good luck!
Sp
Sean Phelan
On 5/4/2010 11:14 AM, Phil M Perry wrote:
On 5/3/2010 10:37 PM, Michael Quick wrote:
Another thing, an employer "trick" is to list everything
under
the sun "required" for the job so they can claim you do not meet them
all. Then they can offer you less money. Hence it's prudent to be
knowledgeable and explain that to employers, but I wouldn't try to
bolster or actually meet them all.
Actually, it's worse than that. It's a wide open secret in the Tech
world that the proper way to recruit is to load up the requirements
with anything plausibly related to the position. No one can honestly
state that they meet all the requirements (except for those
currently or formerly employed at that company), which gives the
employer the opening to say "no Americans can meet these job
requirements, so we need to get an Indian on an H-1B visa". All Indian
staffing agencies are liars -- the stated skill set consists of reading
a book on the subject on the flight over -- but by the time the
employer discovers that, it's too late for them to back out. Besides,
H-1Bs work for sweatshop wages, so employers can afford the lower
productivity or even have to hire two workers, and they still come out
ahead. No employer is willing to take a good, productive American
worker and spend a week training them in the specific software the
company uses -- they have to be skilled and ready to go on Day One,
which is bullshit. It's just an excuse not to pay American workers what
they're worth!
This is all part of the Wal*Marting of America. We're exporting all
jobs except for the very top executives. An economy can't survive with
only people flipping burgers to each other. Please write to your
congresscritter and your senators, and demand an immediate end to the
H-1B visa program. It has been fraudulent from the very beginning --
there never was a tech worker shortage; it was all contrived to bring
in foreign workers and break our wages. Consider doing like I'm going
to do from now on, and never vote for anyone on the democrat or
republican line -- only third party candidates. The two entrenched
parties need to be destroyed, and something less corrupt brought in to
replace them. Think about it!
_______________________________________________
Mid-Hudson Valley Linux Users Group http://mhvlug.org
http://mhvlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mhvlug
Upcoming Meetings (6pm - 8pm) MHVLS Auditorium
May 5 - Crack and LLVM
Jun 2 - Android
Jul 7 - Patent Absurdity - The Movie
_______________________________________________
Mid-Hudson Valley Linux Users Group http://mhvlug.org
http://mhvlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mhvlug
Upcoming Meetings (6pm - 8pm) MHVLS Auditorium
May 5 - Crack and LLVM
Jun 2 - Android
Jul 7 - Patent Absurdity - The Movie
|
