The US Constitution became a historical relic in 1865. Lincoln
suspended most all of the relevant personal guarantees defined in the
Constitution... and used a clause from the Articles of the Confederation
for justification for the War. The government has given the document
lip service but little else since.
For those interested, a good read on the topic of secession is "A View
of the Constitution of the United States of America" by William Rawle of
Philadelphia, PA, Pub 1825. It was the definitive Textbook at the time
on the Constitution and was required reading at The US Military Academy
at West Point.
To summarize, the text states that each state had the right to
secede... Prior to the "Civil War", Secession was not just a "Southern
Idea" but an _American Idea.
_Also note that the the text was authored by a person with a "northern
perspective" from our viewpoint of history.
For a great read on American Cycles read "The Fourth Turning", 1996 by
William Strauss and Neil Howe. An amazing work which documents where
we've been , and what can be expected. Synopsis : The Anglo-American
society has an 80 to 100 year cycle divided into 4 phases, The Fourth
Turning being at the end of the cycle and is characterized as crisis
where all the marbles are bet for existence. There have been 4 during
the US Government control of the Society, the 1st lasted through the
revolutionary period, the 2nd, began in 1860, the 3rd in 1930-1945, and
we are now entering the 4th cycle. The crisis period will last until the
mid 2020's.
It is a fascinating read...
Tony
[email protected] wrote:
Actually don't think the slavery ownership in the title fits the
content. Yes many people owned slaves, but that was considered normal
then.
I'll bet there's not a person on this list that doesn't have a slave
or 2 in their background. If you're Jewish obviously you come from a
slave background. Read the Bible, slavery is a common element for
people of all color and descent. Go back to your history books, it's
almost in every chapter. Bottom line is slavery was never considered
as evil as we think of it today. Does that make it right? No, but it
explains the mindset and the fact that it existed. What do we do
today that our ancestors will think of as barbaric?
But back to your content. I agree, but I'd bet I'm one in a short
line. People profess to understand and support the constitution, the
Declaration of Independence and many other noble and highly regarded
historical concepts, but they don't realize most of them don't apply
any more. Actually the Civil War was one of the big turning away
moment of our history and the views upon which this country was founded.
The Declaration of Independence tells us that all people have the
right to break away from any form of government we don't support, but
that law was changed after the Civil War. Texas joined the union with
the express provision that they could secede at any time they wanted.
I'm told a couple of other states have/had that right. What do you
think present day law says?
So do we hold these truths to be self evident? Not unless the media
tells us to.
On Sep 24, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Jason C wrote:
Better to look at the philosophy than the men.
The weak mind is concerned about appearances.
The average mind is concerned with personalities.
The strong mind is concerned with ideas.
The ideas are:
- self-rule
- de-centralization of power
- most laws affecting the average person are as local as possible
- a gov't that protects inalienable individual rights and has a short
list of allowable powers
(criminals who violate others' individual rights lose some of their
rights).
These would prevent the scum of the earth from taking over positions
of power and screwing the rest of us over..
Jefferson said there are basically 2 kinds of political beliefs:
1) the belief that most people are good and that the purpose of gov't
is to prevent the bad few from taking over, and
2) the belief that people are mostly untrustworthy and power should
be given to a ruling class to control the masses.
The science of psychopathy supports the first one. What do you think?
--- On *Thu, 9/24/09, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
/<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>/* wrote:
From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: secession
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:28 PM
In a message dated 9/24/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> writes:
Our four fathers ( I don't why they call them that cause I
know there were more than 4) set the constitution up the way
they did just to stop the kinds of excesses we are seeing today.
Haha... but they were also slave holders, and if they could
interpret their words today to mean what they meant in their
time, we may find that they were not such wonderful folks at
all. Still, I'm glad they existed, even though I'm not glad
about their method of making money.
History has a way of hiding the awful truth in favor of better
legend, and perhaps that's not a bad thing, as it gives us
something BETTER to work toward.
BTW, our "Founding Fathers" were actually led by 12 Presidents of
various forms of government BEFORE George Washington become
President. He is recognized and the first Prez only because he
was the first under the constituion of 1789. Indeed, Ol' George
was the 13th President of the assemblage we now call the USA.
Jerry aka LGO
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