hmm, ok - i can see why the mix and match may not work in the case where you override with a new xml:lang attribute in a child element :(
Option 2 then :) ---- Steven Livingstone http://stevenR2.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Steven Livingstone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],Microformats Discuss <[email protected]> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 09:53:10 -0500 > >Thanks Brian - that's useful info for me leanring this stuff. It sounds like >xml:lang in its normal context which is fine. > >I guess my point would maybe be that if you are going to bother using >xml:lang="fr" to write some information in French, then i'd have thought you >could easily write the class names and profiles in French too. > >So, on a web page, if i write my Country in English and Spanish on my own web >site, i'd write : > >Country : Scotland >Pais : Escocia > >[ rather than Country : Escocia ]. > >Perhaps there are some use cases that could be pointed at that would make >having yet a further technique for specifing class name/profile languages >really worth the hassle ( i know there will be cases, i'm talking relative >effort ). > >If another technique were required, then each class name under a given context >could be normalized to a single definition (under the namespace for that >particular microformat to allow the same class names to be used many times). >So if someone writes a classname in French, it gets normalized to the English >(or Esperanto, or Klingon - select you preferred PC language) equivalent which >is the normalized classname used if some equivalence test was required. This >would solve the problem for both humans and machines. > >steven >http://stevenR2.com > >---- >Steven Livingstone >http://stevenR2.com > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: brian suda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Microformats Discuss <[email protected]> >Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 09:38:45 -0500 > >>xml:lang is already used within each microformat. For those who don't >>know, you can mix-and-match language attributes within the same >>document. So it is possible to have something like: >> >><div class="vcard" xml:lang="en"> >> <span class="fn">Brian Suda</span> >> <org class="org" xml:lang="fr">Foo Bar</org> >></div> >> >>The resulting vCard looks something like: >> >>VCARD:BEGIN >>FN;LANG=en:Brian Suda >>N;LANG=en:;Suda;Brian;;; >>ORG;LANG=fr:Foo Bar >>VCARD:END >> >>Citations will do this as well, have a book written in one language, >>publisher be in another country, and the author a third. >> >>By adding the xml:lang you can specific the language of the text, NOT >>the language of the class names or profile. >> >>-brian >> >> >>Steven Livingstone wrote: >>> Why not just specify or xml:lang attribute on the Microformat? >>> >>> e.g. >>> >>> <a rel="reference" href="http://www.microformats.org/wiki/hcard-profile"; >>> xml:lang="fr"> >>> Carte de langue pour hCarte à hCard</a> >>> >>> <class = "profile" xml:lang="fr"> >>> <dl> >>> <dt id='nom-et-prenoms' ref='fn'>nom-et-prenoms</dt> >>> <dd>Le nom et prenoms</dd> >>> <dt id='donne-le-nom' ref='given-name'>donne-le-nom</dt> >>> <dd>Donne le nom</dd> >>> <dt id='nom-de-famille' ref='family-name'>nom-de-famille</dt> >>> <dd>Nom de famille</dd> >>> </dl> >>> </class> >>> >>> That way an interpreter could just check the value of this and map the >>> class name. >>> >>> This would allow me to easily have an English, Spanish and French hCard on >>> the same page. >>> >>> ---- >>> Steven Livingstone >>> http://stevenR2.com >>> >>> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >>> From: "Joe Andrieu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Reply-To: Microformats Discuss <[email protected]> >>> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 01:33:51 -0700 >>> >>> >>>>> From: Tantek Çelik Sunday, April 30, 2006 6:56 PM >>>>> To: microformats-discuss >>>>> Subject: Re: [uf-discuss] Microformats vs XML >>>>> >>>>> On 4/30/06 6:20 PM, "Karl Dubost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> And your page has class names in English when you are using another >>>>>> language. -1 >>>>>> >>>> [snip] >>>> >>>>> Thus with microformats, you may use both the standard microformat class >>>>> names, AND class names in your own non-English language if you wish: >>>>> >>>>> <span class="family-name soyad">Çelik</span> >>>>> >>>>> ("soyad" is Turkish for family-name) >>>>> >>>>> Whereas with POX markup standards, you are relegated to only using the >>>>> element names from the spec. >>>>> >>>>> <family-name>Çelik</family-name> >>>>> >>>> The current microformat model is certainly better than POX, but I think it >>>> still leaves something to be desired. This approach still requires that >>>> everyone uses the Microformats Approved(r) Anglo-biased namespace, even if >>>> they get to add their own term to the class. >>>> >>>> To the extent we can enable other peoples and languages to "own" >>>> Microformats and participate as first class citizens, I suggest it would be >>>> a Good Thing(tm). Couldn't we allow a mapping of any microformat into any >>>> language? This seems to be a simple solution for both humans and >>>> computers. >>>> >>>> If we utilize the microformat attribute I mentioned in my previous email >>>> (or >>>> simply standardize on a profile mechanism), we could see something like >>>> this: >>>> >>>> <a class="hcarte" >>>> microformat="http://www.microformats.org.fr/hcarte-profile";> >>>> >>>> And in the hcarte-profile, we see something like this (again, apologies for >>>> any technical errors): >>>> >>>> <a rel="reference" href="http://www.microformats.org/wiki/hcard-profile";> >>>> Carte de langue pour hCarte à hCard</a> >>>> >>>> <class = "profile"> >>>> <dl> >>>> <dt id='nom-et-prenoms' ref='fn'>nom-et-prenoms</dt> >>>> <dd>Le nom et prenoms</dd> >>>> <dt id='donne-le-nom' ref='given-name'>donne-le-nom</dt> >>>> <dd>Donne le nom</dd> >>>> <dt id='nom-de-famille' ref='family-name'>nom-de-famille</dt> >>>> <dd>Nom de famille</dd> >>>> </dl> >>>> </class> >>>> >>>> My apologies for my French, but hopefully it gets the idea across. >>>> Initially I wasn't sure if the hCard reference terms should be >>>> human-readable, rather than attributes of the dictionary entry. If we are >>>> going with the culturally sensitive approach, then I think the profile >>>> should be 100% human readable /in the presenting language/. >>>> >>>> Thus, if a French author/developer discovers the above mentioned >>>> microformat, they may simply use it the same way the first user did: >>>> >>>> <a class=hcarte >>>> microformat=http://www.frenchmicroformats.org/hcarte-profile> >>>> >>>> All without any requirement of seeing or using English except the one >>>> reference to hCard in the title of the profile. (And technically that could >>>> be cut out). Plus, the elements of the microformat are now semantically >>>> relevant to the human author. So, the French soccer-dad who wants to put >>>> his >>>> daughter's soccer schedule online doesn't have to keep mentally translating >>>> between the English hcard class names and his native language. This makes >>>> Microformats much easier to use, especially in cultures and countries where >>>> English is not quite the standardized "second tongue." >>>> >>>> Once any microformat profile has been mapped to a language, it is easily >>>> language-friendly to anyone using that language, assuming they can find the >>>> mapping (another argument for a central registry). >>>> >>>> I expect some might see this approach as offering the potential for chaos. >>>> However, the profile would still be a 1:1 mapping to a well-understood >>>> microformat. And if we have a reliable profile mechanism, the automated >>>> discovery of the semantic translation would be straightforward. Hence, >>>> humans get to use the language they want and computers get clean semantic >>>> data. Isn't that what is at the heart of the Microformats approach? >>>> >>>> Does this make any sense? >>>> >>>> >>>> -j >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Joe Andrieu >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> +1 (805) 705-8651 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> microformats-discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> microformats-discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>microformats-discuss mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >microformats-discuss mailing list >[email protected] >http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss > _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list [email protected] http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
