In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Manu Sporny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Andy Mabbett wrote: >> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Manu Sporny >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >> >>> If only one contributor is listed, it is assumed that he/she/it is also >>> the creator of the hAudio. If multiple contributors are listed, it is >>> assumed that the first contributor is the creator, and all subsequent >>> contributors played supporting roles in the creation of the hAudio. >> >> That fails as soon as we want to mark up something like: >> >> Simon Rattle conducted the CBSO in a marvellous rendition of >> Beethoven's Fifth > >Yes, the use of 'contributor' falls apart completely when we have markup >like that... which is uncommon. For some value of "uncommon". >You should have noted that markup such as that is an edge case. Look at >the audio-info-examples and you will be lucky if you find 1 or 2 >instances of the markup you describe above. Perhaps, but why assume that the limited number and types of examples are representative of all references to audio recordings? >My point is that it is easy to manufacture words that break hAudio - but >much harder to find actual examples online that break it. It's not necessary to "manufacture" examples - I've already provided real evidence, some weeks ago. >If you have issues with this approach, you can always use hAudio RDFa, >which does make the distinction between "dc:creator" and >"dc:contributor". If you wanted to be even more specific, just include >the Music Ontology vocabulary and mark it up using that. I could do, but I'd rather help to get hAudio right; and further microformats in general. >>> Thus, it can be said: >>> >>> Not all contributors are creators. >>> Not all contributors are artists. >> >> That can certainly be said. However, it cannot be expressed in hAudio >> without requiring the publishers of such examples to re-order their >> content. It is a microformats "principle" to not do so. > >For the publishers that need to re-order their content to mark up >hAudio, they are obviously stretching what hAudio uF can do [...] Again, not according to the example I gave a while ago. >We don't have enough examples to split "contributor" into "label", >"publisher", "creator", and "artist" - which is what the examples showed >to be the most prominently displayed contributors across the 93+ sites >that we analyzed for hAudio. Then we need more examples and realising that such examples may never be sufficiently exhaustive, should treat them accordingly. To paraphrase an old maxim: the process should be for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools >>>> It doesn't seem to be based on established practice, as from the >>>> overview it looks like existing markup overwhelming uses 'artist'. >>>> http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-brainstorming#artist >>> If we used artist, we would not have been able to mark up publishers, >>> composers, audio technicians, etc. >> >> If we used *only* 'artist', perhaps, but not if we used 'artist' *AND* >> 'composer' + 'technician'. > >There aren't enough examples that list the composer or the technician to >make the argument for adding those into hAudio. If there are insufficient examples of "composer" being listed, that itself is evidence that the examples are inadequate: <http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=beethoven+mp3> <http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mozart+mp3> <http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=holland+dozier+mp3> likewise for conductors: <http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22von+karajan%22+mp3> <http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22simon+rattle%22+mp3> and, (though I grant that technicians generally get less attention): <http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22george+martin%22+mp3> Consider also how to indicate a reference to a song performed by its composer: <foo class="artist composer">Bob Dylan</foo> >You're more than welcome >to go back through the audio-info-examples and re-analyze all of the >sites to prove your point, though. Why would I, when they're clearly inadequate? -- Andy Mabbett _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss