Hello Chris, thanks for your proposal On Sat, 2007-05-19 at 14:50 -0500, Chris Griego wrote: > Thanks Manu. > > I think the purpose of hSet can be achieved with a much simpler > approach, nearly simplifying the entire schema of the format to just > the 'hset' class name by leveraging conventions. I think my suggestion > lies somewhere between the existing Option #3 and #4. Since I haven't > kept up all that well with the hAudio progress, forgive me while I use > hCalendar as an example. Say you have a chronological list of events > that you want to relate with one of two calendars, making the > individual calendars a sparse grouping. > > Before microformats: > > <h1>Internal and With-Client Events</h1> > <ol> > <li>FOO Sales Pitch [...]</li> > <li>Company Picnic [...]</li> > <li>BAR Photo Shoot [...]</li> > </ol> > > With microformats (today this would be parsed as a 3 calendars, 2 > without any events): > > <h1><span class="vcalendar">Internal</span> and <span > class="vcalendar">With-Client</span> Events</h1> > <ol> > <li class="vevent"><span class="summary">FOO Sales Pitch</span> [...]</li> > <li class="vevent"><span class="summary">Company Picnic</span> [...]</li> > <li class="vevent"><span class="summary">BAR Photo Shoot</span> [...]</li> > </ol> > > With my proposal for hSet: > > <h1><span id="internal-event" class="hset vcalendar">Internal</span> > and <span id="with-client-event" class="hset > vcalendar">With-Client</span> Events</h1> > <ol> > <li class="with-client-event vevent"><span class="summary">FOO Sales > Pitch</span> [...]</li> > <li class="internal-event vevent"><span class="summary">Company > Picnic</span> [...]</li> > <li class="with-client-event vevent"><span class="summary">BAR Photo > Shoot</span> [...]</li> > </ol> > > Using the hset class names attaches special meaning to the element's > ID value, marking it as the machine-readable group name, and then any > other element in the document with a class name that matches the ID > should be considered a set member. The class attribute is a natural > grouping mechanism, by simply marking contacts across the internet > with 'vcard' we've grouped them in the category of contact > information. > > I know that earlier in this discussion I've warned against using the > ID attribute since microformats should be low-impact for > implementation into existing content; but I feel this usage still > holds true to that principle since it can work well with existing IDs. > IDs are currently used as a part of the include-pattern, and I see > hSet's role as an alternative (not replacement) to the include-pattern > that reverses the declaration where the children declare their parent > instead of the parent declaring its children. >
To give you some pointers, what we are trying to do, is cram all the information needed about our grouping into one class, the key reasons for this are: * Groups and Members can be associated with one another without needing to be hierarchically grouped, network relationships are often not hierarchical * The structure of the page should not affect grouping. http://microformats.org/wiki/grouping-brainstorming#Purpose To use your example if I syndicated, shared, downloaded one of your events, I would not know If this was a collection item or not class="with-client-event vevent" I know that this is with a client but what am I doing? and Is this part of a group? I will only understand its true meaning when its grouped on a page. The current hset proposal would say class="hset with-client-event.FOO_Sales_Pitch" the whole class declares that its a grouping, a client event and its sales pitch about foo, * it doesn't need to be hierarchically grouped or even on the same page * its easy to markup no id issues. * It can be sparsely grouped why do I feel your proposal has issues? It relies on the child to be grouped together with the parent for it to have any meaning. If you had Many ID's on a single page all attaching their special meaning, do you think this may cause some problems for browsers or phraser? I know that Both Manu and I would both like a proposal like yours, but truthfully it doesn't quite fit our problem. -Martin McEvoy-
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