Mike, It's been a while since I flew the 777, and this was a 787 anyway, but I think the fuel would gravity feed from the wing tanks enough to support a full power takeoff, though I could be mis-remembering that. I don't remember if Boeing had a takeoff configuration warning for fuel pumps or even a warning that would sound at some other time. Airbus certainly has a warning for fuel pumps being off if the engines are running(cough cough...must have seen that while I was jump seating). In any event, the engines were probably at some reduced power since a 9 hour flight plan, long runway and reasonable pressure altitude shouldn't tax 787. It must be very difficult to take off in the 787 with the fuel pumps not selected to "On," but I'll be interested to learn from the data recorder the position of the switches. Upon rotation gravity feed would be compromised a bit as gravity would not be acting directly downward from tank to engine. That might be enough to reduce engine power but I don't know if they would flame out completely and deploy the RAT. Eric
> On 06/17/2025 2:01 AM EDT Mike Borfitz via Mifnet <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > A little information on the 787 ram air turbine. I cut my engineering teeth > in Boeing Flight Test, working the dual certification of the 757 & 767. I > left quite a while ago but stayed in touch with many of my old comrades. One > good friend lives on Whidbey Island, and is directly under the flight path > for Paine Field aka Boeing North. I shared the Captain Steeeve YouTube video > with him, here is his response: > I’m convinced the RAT dropped. Hear that noise sometimes here; when a 777 > does a first flight, the last item on the B1 profile is to drop the RAT as > they return to PAE. Unmistakable sound. I’m with him, both engines quit. > The B1 profile he refers to is part of the required final ground & flight > tests that must be conducted before a standard airworthiness certificate can > be hung on the airplane. That means he hears it quite a bit. > > And of course I have to add the usual caveat that we're talking theories. I > can add that loss of all thrust due to a single point failure is exceedingly > rare but could be caused by any number of failure types. Fuel starvation > immediately comes to mind (Gimli Glider, A330 gliding 75 miles [!!!!] to the > Azores), crew error, maybe maintenance errors. The notion is so scary that it > gets plenty of attention in my world. > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2025 at 10:59 PM Karl L. Swartz via Mifnet > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > Tom, it says "All 241 people on board the aircraft have died” but there > > were 242 souls aboard. Typical sloppy reporting from the click-bait press. > > > > -- Karl > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2025, at 1:19 PM, Tom Ronell via Mifnet > > > <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > It says below that "All on board... have died." I thought the passenger > > > in 11A survived with relatively minor injuries? > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > From: Jack Keady via Mifnet <[email protected] > > > mailto:[email protected]> > > > To: David Wardell via Mifnet <[email protected] > > > mailto:[email protected]> > > > CC: Jack Keady <[email protected] mailto:[email protected]> > > > Date: Jun 16, 2025 22:48:49 > > > Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 72733] Air India item > > > > > > > keady - first i heard of a ground fatality count. > > > > > > > > Sending as received, from FB: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Aviator's Cafe > > > > https://www.facebook.com/theaviatorscafe18?__cft__[0]=AZWagCkm8yabL64jiF8K0dvUMSc81BZdvlfyoCTu4M1oSGxegd1r1R5HVuuKauFLLQVttl5s6l0Pe2cHRBMl062Ee0Jl2bmR257xRL2nTgjGRPVLdjp9_5eNccqea4LV9wqOikjCTUl9OP80ZJre1fbtxKumBiQLgt1xVE6YyT6glpi4q70aLLxJtaYjrnP89_cYM4KQKS8PWsIQ6oQtu9pwN9WgnocHKVTgjN6GapeU6anB2JVrwPxZxW-eNpVpNdQ&__tn__=-UC%2CP-R > > > > · > > > > Follow > > > > > > > > sdetpoSronfchmguh17h1tf5hthm2hgf7aiahm7a79lic56t0cca41hll516 > > > > https://www.facebook.com/theaviatorscafe18/posts/pfbid02LbunUwjDF3yx9XShLZgFobZENsY8TzDeCGh5feB9Z5kiAf9nMmQmptcvh8PuMMbql?__cft__[0]=AZWagCkm8yabL64jiF8K0dvUMSc81BZdvlfyoCTu4M1oSGxegd1r1R5HVuuKauFLLQVttl5s6l0Pe2cHRBMl062Ee0Jl2bmR257xRL2nTgjGRPVLdjp9_5eNccqea4LV9wqOikjCTUl9OP80ZJre1fbtxKumBiQLgt1xVE6YyT6glpi4q70aLLxJtaYjrnP89_cYM4KQKS8PWsIQ6oQtu9pwN9WgnocHKVTgjN6GapeU6anB2JVrwPxZxW-eNpVpNdQ&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R > > > > · > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Indian authorities have confirmed that both black boxes have been > > > > recovered from the wreckage. > > > > All 241 people on board the aircraft have died. An additional 33 people > > > > on the ground were also killed when the plane crashed. > > > > > > > > [📷]: Daily Mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [May be an image of blueprint, map, floor plan and text that says > > > > '1:38pm local time Flight lightA11 AI171 takes off from Sardar > > > > Vallabhbhai Patel International Airport Video shows the plane sinking > > > > towards the ground with landing gear still down The flight lasted under > > > > minute distance of 1,600m before itcrashed 1,600 m M 5 The aircraft's > > > > tail struck building and broke off The rest of the plane slid across > > > > the building's roof 7 then exploded in a fireball besides the Atatulyan > > > > building complex Ghoda Camp Road Atatulyam 3'] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All reactions: > > > > 516516 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Revised: 20250507 > > > > > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > > > > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > > > exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the > > > effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > > > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > > > > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > > > > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a > > > privilege--not a right. > > > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > > > author. > > > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > > > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > > > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of > > > other Mifnet members. > > > > > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > > > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > > > > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > > > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected] > > > mailto:[email protected]?subject=leave > > > > > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > > > [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > > > [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates > > > all list traffic into 1-3 > > > messages daily. 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If you'd care to make a small contribution to the > > effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a > > privilege--not a right. > > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > > author. > > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other > > Mifnet members. > > > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via > > email:http://[email protected]?subject=leave > > > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > > [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > > [email protected] mailto:[email protected] > > > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all > > list traffic into 1-3 > > messages daily. See instructions at: > > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > > > * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: > > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > > > * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > > http://[email protected]?subject=help > > > > * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: > > https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies > > > > * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: > > https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems > > > > * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: > > https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ > > > > > -- > Mike Borfitz, DER > > Cell 206-714-8797 > e-Mail: [email protected] > Kilroy Aviation LLC > Website: WWW.FAAODA.COM http://www.faaoda.com/ > > Kilroy is available for aviation regulatory and safety issues > - Type & Production Certification, Continued Operational Safety > - International validation & safety matters > - Program & system management > - FAA STC ODA > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, > please know that it would be greatly appreciated: > https://wardell.us/url/mifbit > > All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: > > 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not > a right. > 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the > author. > 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. > 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. > 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other > Mifnet members. > > * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: > https://www.mifnet.com/ > > * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave > > * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: > [email protected] > > * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: > [email protected] > > * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all > list traffic into 1-3 > messages daily. See instructions at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/ > > * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: > [email protected]?subject=help > > * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies > > * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: > https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems > > * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: > https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ >
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