I'm sure he won't. He knows his market too well. I'm flying on one tomorrow morning so if it's half empty with just a few luddites reading print magazines I'll be sure to let you know. Don't wait up. Simon -------- Original message --------From: Tom Ronell via Mifnet <[email protected]> Date: 18/01/2026 21:18 (GMT+00:00) To: The Mifnet <[email protected]> Cc: Tom Ronell <[email protected]> Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 75165] Re: rich and richer argue Besides drag, there are installation, weight, upkeep and usage costs. O'Leary has a valid point regarding the question of how many short-haul Ryanair passengers will be willing to pay for the service, versus if he will lose any passengers to other airlines which offer Starlink. TR From: RWM--- via Mifnet <[email protected]>To: [email protected]: [email protected] <[email protected]>Date: 2026-01-18T19:48:05ZSubject: [Mifnet 🛰 75163] Re: rich and richer argue The holy grail of airborne satellite terminal antennas is the Conformal Electronically Steerable Phased Array Antenna (CESPAA) which integrates multiple small antenna elements into a low-profile, curved, fuselage or missile-body surface profile, using electronic phase shifting to steer the radio beams without physically moving parts, minimizing aerodynamic drag. These lowest-profile, lowest-drag arrays use advanced digital processing to form beams, enabling high performance in mobile, space, and airborne systems by closely conforming to vehicle shapes, while electronic phase shifters account for the varying distances from the conformal curved surface to create a planar wavefront, ensuring ideal beam quality. Primary applications are in military Aerospace & Defense, providing seamless, high-gain signal integration on aircraft, drones, and missiles for radar and communication, and the ability to simultaneously track multiple satellite elevations (GEO/MEO/LEO) and relative angular velocities for highest throughput on mobile land, sea and aerial terminals. - Bob Mann On Jan 18, 2026, at 13:56, Mifnet Admin via Mifnet <[email protected]> wrote: @font-face { font-family: Wingdings; } @font-face { font-family: "Cambria Math"; } @font-face { font-family: Aptos; } p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; } h1 { margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 24pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-weight: bold; } a:link, span.MsoHyperlink { color: blue; text-decoration: underline; } span.gmaildefault { } span.Heading1Char { font-family: "Aptos Display", sans-serif; color: rgb(15, 71, 97); } span.EmailStyle21 { font-family: Arial, sans-serif; } .MsoChpDefault { } @page WordSection1 { size: 8.5in 11in; margin: 1in; } div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; } ol { margin-bottom: 0in; } ul { margin-bottom: 0in; } Best shot. I REALLY doubt there's a 2% difference between a Starlink antenna & a conventional antenna (see "Other" photo below). If there's a difference it will favor Starlink but their design is probably just leading the pack, they're all probably going that direction. The lower the antenna profile the lower the drag the happier the operator. Starlink has a phased array antenna that's flatter & steered electronically. Don't ask me how because it's magic. See the bullet for a Wiki article on phased array. WARNING: If you're a child of the sixties you may want to prepare yourself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phased_array A conventional antenna is mechanically steered like the old days, sometimes with a bit of phased array & the radome is more bulbous with a variety of shapes but usually have more drag, see the 3rd pic. Check out the "Other" antenna pic below. The link over that photo take you to an article about a Canadian Airworthiness Directive that addresses "....ELT antenna failures are related to vibration induced by vortices created by the antenna radome." And vortices = drag = $$$$. There is a drag penalty for radome certification. The drag numbers are generated by computerized fluid dynamics (CFD). The biggie is takeoff performance, obstacle clearance might be the most critical factor. The performance loss from drag is figured and the airplane gets a weight penalty with the approval, adding some "fake" numbers to the empty weight to ensure takeoff, obstacle clearance & initial climb profile are equivalent to a clean airplane. There's bound to be drag in cruise as well and fuel consumption may be figured differently. I'm not aware of a requirement for new cruise numbers so I suspect the weight penalty deals with that as well. I gotta confirm that, it makes sense Starlink antenna <image001.png> "Other" antenna (generic) it's a bit higher https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ad-cf-2021-10-large-antennas-juan-carlos-pinzon/ <image.png> Real numbers, a decent explanation https://www.aviationtoday.com/2018/12/21/gogos-2ku-antenna-de-icing-fix-working/ <image.png> Mike Borfitz Cell 206-714-8797 Kilroy Aviation LLC WWW.FAAODA.COM Kilroy is available for aviation regulatory and safety issues - Type & Production Certification, Continued Operational Safety - International validation & safety matters - Program & system management - FAA STC ODA On Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 5:10 PM Jack Keady via Mifnet <[email protected]> wrote: keady - maybe Mr. Borfitz can talk to the figures ‘He’s an idiot’: Musk and Ryanair’s O’Leary trade insults in Starlink Wi-Fi row What began as a disagreement over airline internet has turned into a full-blown war of words. Copy Link Free article usually reserved for subscribers “He’s an idiot — very wealthy, but still an idiot,” O'Leary said. He also described Musk’s social media platform X as a “cesspit.” | Simon Wohlfahrt / AFP via Getty Images January 17, 2026 10:19 am CET By Chris Lunday A spat over in-flight Wi-Fi has spiralled into a public verbal brawl between Elon Musk and Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary, pitting one of the world's richest men against Europe’s most outspoken airline boss. The clash burst into the open after O'Leary dismissed Musk and his satellite internet business in a radio interview on Ireland’s Newstalk. Responding to Musk calling him “misinformed” over Ryanair’s refusal to install Starlink Wi-Fi, O’Leary told listeners he would “pay no attention whatsoever to Elon Musk.” “He’s an idiot — very wealthy, but still an idiot,” O'Leary said. He also described Musk’s social media platform X as a “cesspit.” Musk fired back on X, writing: “Ryanair CEO is an utter idiot. Fire him.” In a follow-up post, he accused O’Leary of getting Starlink’s fuel-burn impact wrong “by a factor of 10” and added: “Fire this imbecile.” Ryanair’s official X account also joined the fray, mocking Musk during a reported outage on his platform, replying: “perhaps you need Wi-Fi @elonmusk?” Behind the insults lies a substantive dispute about costs and aircraft performance. Ryanair has publicly ruled out installing Starlink across its more than 600 Boeing 737s, arguing the external antennas would increase drag and fuel consumption. O’Leary has said the technology would impose around a 2 percent fuel penalty and could cost the airline hundreds of millions of dollars a year, a trade-off he says makes little sense on short-haul flights where passengers are unlikely to pay for connectivity. Musk disputes those figures, pointing to airlines already flying with Starlink-equipped aircraft and arguing that fast internet will increasingly shape passenger choice. 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