Let me get this straight now Orn, you are saying that Don Johnson's kids most likely will be working for 3 cents a day in Chinese owned factories in Galveston??
Have you completely lost it? This thread is unraveling in the cul de sac of bad dreams. On Jun 15, 11:51 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > "...Your kids most likely won't be fashioning bombs or IES's to > kill....." - sd > > Most likely, they will be working, child labor, for 3 cents a day in > Chinese owned factories in Galveston! > > On Jun 15, 5:14 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Your softening Don. The pacifists view is ideal and one that you and I > > espouse but that is, in truth, only ideal if that is the path we are > > undertaking. Point being and reiterated IS......... > > "IF we are going to talk war let's HAVE war and IF we are going to > > talk peace let's HAVE peace." > > > We can't send out soldiers to do bloody battle while bullshit artists > > sit around smoking peace pipes! > > > Your kids most likely won't be fashioning bombs or IED's to kill > > someone they don't know for something they know nothing about but > > "their" kids most likely will. > > > On Jun 15, 6:11 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Fair enough. I understand the pacifist view even if I don't think it > > > solves problems or makes us safer. I guess it comes down to me > > > feeling my kids are worth more then their kids. It sounds callous but > > > its how I feel. If I had the choice pushing the proverbial button > > > that kills 100 jihad radicalized foreign born children who's parents I > > > don't know and saving my son's life I doubt I would even hesitate. > > > Morally despicable but intellectually honest. > > > > dj > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Tinker<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The enemy hides behind children when a bomb is dropped? > > > > There is no just cause for the US to be there, yes, give up and leave. > > > > > peace & Love > > > > > On Jun 15, 5:12 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Show me some evidence, Tink. I'd wager we feed and house many more > > > >> children then are killed as collateral damage. We put our soldiers at > > > >> great risk to avoid it but it does happen. Where is this evidence of > > > >> 'daily' killings? When the enemy hides behind children and kills our > > > >> soldiers what are we to do? Give up and leave? > > > > >> dj > > > > >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Tinker<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > Don, > > > >> > How is it that you can be so condemning of 'them' and gloss over the > > > >> > fact that 'US forces' are killing innocent children daily? > > > > >> > peace & Love > > > > >> > On Jun 15, 3:35 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> From what I've read, most 'martyrs' are mentally disturbed people. > > > >> >> Recruited and used for the political ends of terrorist leaders. > > > >> >> Blowing ones self up in a crowded bus stop or popular cafe is > > > >> >> insane. > > > >> >> And inhuman. I see no heroism here. Our disagreement on this issue > > > >> >> alone infects all others. One has only to read the objectives of > > > >> >> Jihadists and compare them with the objectives of Western military > > > >> >> efforts to see who has the more noble goal. If your response is to > > > >> >> say the terrorists rhetoric is exaggerated and ours(Western) all > > > >> >> lies > > > >> >> or propaganda then there is nothing else to discuss. I tend to base > > > >> >> my opinion on people and countries on what they say as well as what > > > >> >> they do. By their words and actions terrorists of all kinds prove > > > >> >> to > > > >> >> me almost every day the dehumanizing and destructive nature of > > > >> >> radical > > > >> >> Islam. I'd be happier if we were more honest about this. > > > > >> >> There can be no political solution because the enemy isn't organized > > > >> >> like a state. Someone recently posted something about Palestine not > > > >> >> even being an actual country. It's a collection of refugees from > > > >> >> other countries used as a buffer against Israel. I see Israel again > > > >> >> and again bending over backwards for a solution with Palestine. It > > > >> >> will never happen politically. > > > > >> >> dj > > > > >> >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:21 AM, > > > >> >> Justintruth<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> > The answer is simple. We do not kill them because it will > > > >> >> > negatively > > > >> >> > affect our efforts on the battlefield to achieve superiority. It > > > >> >> > motivates the enemy, hardens and destroys our own morale, and all > > > >> >> > for > > > >> >> > no strategic purpose. Ultimately, it is a political objective > > > >> >> > that we > > > >> >> > are trying to reach. Moving it farther out of our hands make no > > > >> >> > sense. > > > > >> >> > On Jun 14, 11:14 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> >> I think you are losing the context of the thread. Perhaps > > > >> >> >> lining them > > > >> >> >> up for a firing squad veers the thread intent off track. I > > > >> >> >> thought > > > >> >> >> there would be a psychological discussion but instead it is > > > >> >> >> turning > > > >> >> >> out to be everything else but. > > > > >> >> >> The "civilians" and the "combatants"... the "guilty" and the > > > >> >> >> "innocent > > > >> >> >> bystander" are co-located. <JT > > > > >> >> >> Sure they are, no kidding? I'm not suggesting now nor did I > > > >> >> >> suggest > > > >> >> >> at any time that we bomb the whole place, killing innocent > > > >> >> >> people in > > > >> >> >> the process. My only suggestion was that we just eliminate the > > > >> >> >> enemy > > > >> >> >> combatants during ground wars of any kind. > > > >> >> >> The context of the thread is pertaining to all wars, any wars, > > > >> >> >> fighting over anything. Like the civil war! > > > >> >> >> Again!! > > > >> >> >> There is a change that takes place. Soldier A is shooting at > > > >> >> >> soldier > > > >> >> >> B with all the intention of killing him. Soldier B for whatever > > > >> >> >> reason gets caught by soldier A. Soldier B, who killed several > > > >> >> >> of > > > >> >> >> soldier A's friends and claims he will kill more if given the > > > >> >> >> opportunity, is taken by soldier A and treated very well. Why? > > > > >> >> >> SO!! I am simply saying that If I were soldier A, I would just > > > >> >> >> kill > > > >> >> >> soldier B (the enemy) instead of wasting my time catering to his > > > >> >> >> needs. > > > > >> >> >> If we are going to kill then lets kill otherwise let's put out a > > > >> >> >> huge > > > >> >> >> picnic table and have Soldiers A and Soldiers B sit down and > > > >> >> >> treat > > > >> >> >> each other nicely while they eat!! > > > > >> >> >> On Jun 14, 12:25 pm, Justintruth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > You seem to have no awareness of the context of what is > > > >> >> >> > happening. You > > > >> >> >> > seem not to see the context at all. > > > > >> >> >> > First, the term "war". If we are in a war then we are in a > > > >> >> >> > severely > > > >> >> >> > asymetrical one. There is no government that has "declared" > > > >> >> >> > war on us > > > >> >> >> > in this thing. Nor is there a society, working together in an > > > >> >> >> > organized manner behind a defended perimeter. > > > > >> >> >> > The "civilians" and the "combatants"... the "guilty" and the > > > >> >> >> > "innocent > > > >> >> >> > bystander" are co-located. > > > > >> >> >> > What is the technical objective of a terrorist strike? What > > > >> >> >> > was Osama > > > >> >> >> > bin Laden's objective for 9/11? Do you think he was "trying to > > > >> >> >> > destroy > > > >> >> >> > us"? No he was not. If he was trying to destroy us he needed a > > > >> >> >> > significant increment in the tonnage of his explosives. Don't > > > >> >> >> > you not > > > >> >> >> > realize that he KNEW that 9/11 would not destroy us and that > > > >> >> >> > the > > > >> >> >> > function of the mission was to draw us into the kind of > > > >> >> >> > conflict that > > > >> >> >> > the Russians got into so that he could use the same techniques > > > >> >> >> > on us > > > >> >> >> > as he did on them and then DISCREDIT us. Not DESTROY us. > > > >> >> >> > DISCREDIT us. > > > >> >> >> > If he can de-ligitamize our actions and our society then he can > > > >> >> >> > legitemize his own struggle and through that process gain the > > > >> >> >> > political strength that he would need to actually destroy us. > > > >> >> >> > When > > > >> >> >> > that happens his ideas win. Preventing his ideas from taking > > > >> >> >> > hold is > > > >> >> >> > the whole enchilada. > > > > >> >> >> > Your idea of "just killing" those in Guatanamo is wrong on > > > >> >> >> > several > > > >> >> >> > levels not the least of which is strategic. You would play > > > >> >> >> > right into > > > >> >> >> > their hands. At the beginning of the war that eliminated the > > > >> >> >> > Taliban > > > >> >> >> > we had the opportunity to reconfigure the entire political > > > >> >> >> > dialogue on > > > >> >> >> > which international relations is based. We should have seen our > > > >> >> >> > primary objective as the need to de-legitimize that kind of > > > >> >> >> > action and > > > >> >> >> > those kind of people and kept our hands "extra" clean taking > > > >> >> >> > extraordinary measures to prevent casualties among the > > > >> >> >> > innocent and > > > >> >> >> > drawing a clear distinction between "us" those that would not > > > >> >> >> > use > > > >> >> >> > those techniques and "them" those that do. The political > > > >> >> >> > fallout would > > > >> >> >> > have been the collapse of Jihadist movement. (I am not saying > > > >> >> >> > that we > > > >> >> >> > should not have disarmed the Taliban- so don't strawman me.) > > > > >> >> >> > I suspect that the number of children, not just innocents, but > > > >> >> >> > innocent children, that we have "slaughtered" or "maimed" > > > >> >> >> > -words that > > > >> >> >> > take thinking about to realize their meaning - is now greater > > > >> >> >> > than we > > > >> >> >> > lost in NYC. And still we have the - well I am sorry to use > > > >> >> >> > the word > > > >> >> >> > but I must - imbecilic - ideas like you are proposing floating > > > >> >> >> > around. > > > > >> >> >> > The real tragedy of the Obama victory was that it was so close > > > >> >> >> > and so > > > >> >> >> > many of you just have no clue strategically. You have > > > >> >> >> > witnessed and > > > >> >> >> > are witnessing the collapse of American power which would not > > > >> >> >> > be a > > > >> >> >> > problem except that we "were" the "best hope" of taking the > > > >> >> >> > world into > > > >> >> >> > a happy future. Ah well, perhaps we should just wait for the > > > >> >> >> > Chinese > > > >> >> >> > to rise to the occasion and lead us there. > > > > >> >> >> > Where is your common sense man? > > > > >> >> >> > On Jun 14, 11:36 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
