Let's send these killers to Bermuda! At least two of them enjoy
swimming.
On Jun 16, 2:17�am, Justintruth <[email protected]> wrote:
> You asked.
>
> Your idea about "just killing" the prisoners on Gitmo would undermine
> our attempts to de-legitimize the Jihadist movement without any
> significant compensatory benefit. The scale of the damage it would
> cause at a critical time on the battlefield is enormous. You can try
> to distract from this all you want but what you suggest is just crazy.
> Earlier in my life I would have just let such "let's go kill um" cheer
> leading lunacy pass without comment because I thought it too crazy for
> serious people to consider. Unfortunately, given our recent history, I
> think we all need to point out such errors before they take hold. I am
> no longer convinced that we are beyond considering them seriously.
> Ideas like yours have damaged the credibility of the United States of
> America and we must now work to rehabilitate it. Hopefully that is
> underway now but it is not certain.
>
> I am not "preaching" nor even suggesting civility. I have indeed
> deliberately tried to avoid it. I am simply noting the strategic
> consequences of your proposal. Its effect in Pakistan and Afganistan,
> where we are asking soldiers to risk their own lives to protect
> innocent life in order to discredit the fundamentalism and in order to
> turn the situation around strategically, would be very destructive.
> You take into account the effect that the consequent impact to our own
> legitimacy would have on the order of battle that they will face in
> those countries. Hundreds of thousands or even millions of committed
> Jihadists is not a good outcome. Your ideas would contribute to that
> scenario and we might then be indeed forced to kill many more of
> "them" than "we" would like. Perhaps you trust Putin not to supply
> shoulder armed missiles?
>
> Cheers.
>
> On Jun 15, 7:06�pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I don't think you should be telling me what I should study. �I'm sorry
> > that you think I've been living in the dark. �Chimpanzees? Jane
> > Goodall? Maybe we should send the chimpanzees over to North Korea or
> > Afghanistan and see if they can quell the festering quagmire of
> > hostility. �I'm sure Hillary or Gore can soothe their zeal for power.
> > Most likely they would wind up in the same labor camp as Ling and
> > Lee. �So much for the passive approach. I have an idea, why don't we
> > send you and the heretic over there to preach your civility. �I'm
> > sorry but I have spent way too much time wiping blood off my skin for
> > a decision coming from an air conditioned office.
>
> > On Jun 15, 3:20�pm, Justintruth <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > �The thread is about the psychology of war
>
> > > > concerning the line drawn between killing and caring. �I was looking,
> > > > still waiting, for the psychological mechanism that differentiates the
> > > > enemy perspective. �
>
> > > If you want to see the psychology of war take a look at chimpanzee
> > > behavioral studies. War is a primate instinct. So is nurturing and
> > > motherhood and caring for others. Unlike most species primates "sub-
> > > speciate" and form very different behavior patterns toward members of
> > > the own group and those outside it. Its a primate instinctual pattern.
> > > Show a picture of an Arab being killed to a group of Arabs and
> > > Westerners and you will get different reactions. Show a picture of a
> > > Westerner being killed to similar groups and the reactions will
> > > switch. People on average feel sympathy to those within their group
> > > more readily than to those outside of it. Humans sub-speciate along
> > > national, religious, racial and tribal and party lines.
> > > �See:http://www.janegoodall.org/jane/
>
> > > > When I referred to the firing squad I'm eliminating the BS,
>
> > > No you are not, you are just making more of it.
>
> > > .... if we are going to engage in war then
>
> > > > let's not play silly games, let's engage and win. �If we are not going
> > > > to engage war then let's talk peace, utilize diplomacy and show by
> > > > example that we don't have a war mentality.
>
> > > This is a classic example of the logical fallacy of the false
> > > dilemma.
>
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy
>
> > > �I don't care how well you treat these prisoners, cater to
>
> > > > their needs, throw parties for them, no one is going to look at us and
> > > > say "wow these people are really loving and caring" instead they will
> > > > continue their "Death to America" chants, burn our flag and effigies.
>
> > > This is a classic example of the strawman fallacy, No one is
> > > advocating throwing parties for the prisoners in Gitmo none are the
> > > saying that they will say "wow these people are really loving and
> > > caring". Its a simple strawman.
>
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
>
> > > .....sold to these piss ant countries >
>
> > > Excuse me? What kind of countries? Showing your bigotry there for
> > > sure....
>
> > > We
>
> > > > should have planted seeds for peace not war.
>
> > > No kidding? So now what should we do? "Just kill them"?
>
> > > ... "you killed a
>
> > > > thousand of our people, now we are going to give you room and board
> > > > and free medical care"?
>
> > > Its another simple strawman
>
> > > Why don't you just look at the strategic situation in Pakistan and
> > > Afganistan and show how your approach will advance the interests of
> > > the ideals the US is supposed to represent? �What will be the reaction
> > > of the world and the reaction in Afganistan and Pakistan in particular
> > > if we just executed all of the prisoners at Gitmo? That's the real
> > > question. How do you conclude that it will advance our objectives?
> > > What do you think will be the reaction? Everyone just gets afraid and
> > > falls in line? You should study the history of aerial bombardment of
> > > population centers. You should study what happened in Vietnam. You
> > > should consider the potential order of battle that will occur if we
> > > fail to de-legitimize our opponents and instead de-legitimize our own
> > > efforts.
>
> > > With respect to the prisoners of Gitmo, "Just killing them" would be a
> > > tremendous strategic error significantly crippling our attempts to de-
> > > legitamize the Jihadist movement, degrading our effectiveness in the
> > > world, de-legitimizing our future attempts to end conflict and
> > > crippling US foreign policy on a host of fronts. It would create more
> > > terrorists than it would kill. By far. I can think of nothing more
> > > opposite to what should be done.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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