On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 07:26:19PM +0000, Paul Civati wrote: > Correct, I wasn't talking about plain IPSec, I was talking about > "the simple connection of Windows clients, using the built-in VPN > connector" exactly as I wrote. > > Can we drop the condescending "everyone without an openbsd.org mail > address is an idiot" attitude please. >
can you drop the "poor misunderstood user on misc@" attitude please? talking about "stupid wizards" shouldn't be condescending to you and it's not an attitude by me. > I didn't say there was no other possible way to use IPSec on Windows, > and my post was quite clear about the method I was talking about. > > > starting with windows 2000, it is possible to use the built-in ipsec > > support. it is a bit hidden and the configuration is painful, but it > > actually works... you can configure it from the system management > > console or by executing "system32\secpol.msc". > > Exactly, this is not simple, the "stupid wizard" you refer to is > what average joe without in depth IP stack knowledge will want > to use, and what some people who have to support client VPN > connections may want to use, because it will greatly reduce > their support headache - providing server side works smoothly > of course. > "i was talking about [something else]". ok, ok, i got it. but if you're administrating a network with windows clients you can even provide tools and software to make their and your life easy. did you look at the link to mark uemura's slides? he's running a very smart setup which is secure, redundant (i think he even extended it with sasyncd) and easy. the only thing his joe average users have to do is to click a little icon and to type in a password... my personal oppinion is that depending on a castrated functionality provided by a such wizards can be stupid. and sometimes it is even much more difficult to click through these stupid wizards than typing in a command or editing a human-readble configuration file. it is even a stupid wizard problem, that users get used to their stupid wizards and stupidly become to think that stupid wizards are easier to use... and that is wrong. i know joe average users who started using computers by running openbsd and they get heavilly scared when they get in touch with a windows box ("oh, it's so complicated..."). > -Paul- > cheers, reyk