at this point I must ask if you guys are talking about the same freaking bill I just read, Eric you make some valid points and jenny and cathy on a dog breeders perspective there are parts I agree with you on, but it appears that small farming interest are not in any means protected from government over regulation. It appears that this biss is very haphazardly put together to serve the needs of many and it bites off more then should be allowed in one constitutional amendment.
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 7:40 AM, D L Wells <kcrecyc...@gmail.com> wrote: > "....as long as you continue to raise your animals in a safe and humane > way." > > Who will regulate 'safe and humane'? It will be the Nanny Government who > tells you that your cows and chickens and all the rest require *drugs* to > keep them "safe" from disease. Why? > > Government representative: "Well, it's a generally accepted scientific > principle, that's why." > > You will have no leg to stand on. > > The less the Nanny Government has to say about our families, our homes and > our animals, the freer we will be. > > D > > > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Jenny Thrasher < > jenny_thras...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> Nevermind. I thought you guys were interested in protecting the rights >> of the little guy from the Nanny State, and all it would impose. Do you >> want more Government, or less? Here they are, offering you a permanent >> addition to the Missouri State Constitution that says they will stay out of >> your way forever as long as you continue to raise your animals in a safe and >> humane way. You have a chance to get what you want, and you are undecided. >> Hmmm. >> >> You better make up your mind pretty fast though- the clock is ticking, >> session is over May 14. You will never get this opportunity again- after >> these 90 Reps are termed out, our Ag Coalition may never have the ear of >> the legislation again, and the Breadbasket of the World could very well >> become empty. I am dead serious, folks. >> >> >> Jenny Thrasher >> Pict O'the Highlands Scottish Terriers >> www.pictothehighlands.com >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Tom Martz <t.ma...@gmail.com> >> *To:* missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com >> *Sent:* Tue, May 4, 2010 3:06:43 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [MoLiCo] Missouri - Alert! Immediate Action Needed!! >> >> Well this is why we can carry on civil discourse so everyone can be better >> informed of what is occuring. There are those who know a little about alot, >> then there are thoe that know alot about a little, but no one knows it all >> about everything. >> >> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Jenny Thrasher < >> jenny_thras...@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >>> Actually, Eric did not explain it eloquently at all- he was guessing >>> about this topic based on previous experience in other areas because most of >>> what he said didn't apply here. HJR 86 is about protecting our rights to >>> raise livestock in a humane manner, without the State imposing undue >>> economic hardship on people in order to phase it out of existence. >>> This includes the ability to practice one's religious beliefs as they are >>> raising livestock, because this was written specifically with regards >>> religious groups in the first place. >>> >>> I don't think you guys are aware at all of the threat that the HSUS poses >>> to ALL domesticated animals in this country. They want them gone from human >>> use, and this is no big secret. They are achieving thier goal through >>> legislative incrementalisation based on fear mongering. WHen you see a news >>> report about abuse or lack of sanitation in slaughter houses or farms, you >>> can bet that they or one of their employees was there to create the >>> situation. We know this to be true, because they have been caught, charged, >>> and sentenced for setting up the very scenarios they are pretending to >>> "expose". However, after having got the film footage out there, it is in the >>> public mind, and when the HSUS comes in screaming for legislation to address >>> the situation they supposedly exposed, they bulldose til they get it. >>> >>> They are attempting that right now. They went ahead with gathering >>> signatures even though there was a huge lawsuit against them (this PMI >>> blatantly violates the State Constitution) and they are already putting out >>> news releases as if it is a done deal that it will be on the ballot. They >>> still haven't won the lawsuit, the signatures still have to be verified at >>> the county level, and the SOS still has to give final approval in order for >>> it to go on the ballot. The HSUS is bulldozing forward, regardless of the >>> legal process, and actually said that the lawsuit was frivolous. That is >>> what they think of our Constitution- that violating it is a frivolous >>> matter. So please decide quickly how you feel about outside special interest >>> groups coming into our state to walk right over our Constitution and decide >>> for us, by hook or by crook, how we are to live, raise our animals, what we >>> are allowed to do to provide for our families, and how much of our state >>> resources they can suck up in the process of doing all this. If we can't get >>> HJR 86 passed, they will be back every year until they wear us down. >>> >>> >>> Jenny Thrasher >>> Pict O'the Highlands Scottish Terriers >>> www.pictothehighlands.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* D L Wells <kcrecyc...@gmail.com> >>> *To:* missourilibertycoalition@googlegroups.com >>> *Sent:* Tue, May 4, 2010 7:02:51 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [MoLiCo] Missouri - Alert! Immediate Action Needed!! >>> >>> I'm with Eric. Less regulation & more protection of rights (with a side >>> order of legal ramifications for breaking that protection) is what I'd >>> rather see. >>> >>> Thanks for explaining it so eloquently, Eric. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Eric Vought <evou...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On May 3, 2010, at 8:27 PM, CathyM wrote: >>>> >>>> We need all concerned Missouri residents to contact their state senators >>>>> ASAP in support of HJR86. If you don’t know who your state senator is, go >>>>> to:http://www.senate.mo.gov/LLookup/Leg_Lookup.aspx >>>>> >>>>> If you don’t live in Missouri but know someone that does, please pass >>>>> this on to them whether they own dogs, cats, or livestock. HJR86 >>>>> preserves >>>>> our right to have our animals without the interference of animal rights >>>>> groups. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I will say that I would like to support this legislation but am not >>>> certain that I *should* support it. I AM very much concerned about >>>> legislation taking away our rights to raise animals without interference. >>>> We >>>> raise sheep, goats, horses, chickens, geese, rabbits and ducks here. I >>>> actually worked on writing similar legislation for this last session, but I >>>> do have some concerns about HJR86: >>>> >>>> 1) It is a Constitutional amendment. This makes any potential problems >>>> with the language three times as problematic. A Constitutional amendment >>>> overrules all existing laws and common law precedent and, if it ends up >>>> being a problem, cannot be fixed by legislation. This is a heavy-handed >>>> approach. I would rather have legislation which recognizes the EXISTING >>>> right of MO citizens to raise food without interference as supported by our >>>> current Constitution and religious freedoms. >>>> >>>> 2) The way it is worded now, it says that this right may not be >>>> infringed except by laws based on generally accepted "scientific" >>>> principle. >>>> Science, as relied on by lawmakers, is not objective; "scientific >>>> conclusions" are often twisted by money and politics. Who tends to have >>>> more >>>> money and political influence? Big business and CAFOs. >>>> >>>> I am concerned that the amendment would end up allowing CAFO operations >>>> which damage surrounding communities and are inhumane and NOT allow folks >>>> like us to keep a small farm in peace because we aren't "scientific" enough >>>> in our practices. To me, small farming rights are supported in large part >>>> by >>>> freedom of religion and religious practice, not science, I believe our >>>> practices ARE objectively better for the animals and makes them (and us) >>>> healthier, but that is not why we do it, (Since "religion" is a system of >>>> belief we use to order our lives and live the way we believe we are meant >>>> to, "religious practice" naturally covers many things outside of a church >>>> and is inseparable from... practically anything else.) >>>> >>>> 3) Even a Constitutional amendment would not prevent a ballot initiative >>>> from undoing it, since ballot initiatives can amend the MO Constitution. >>>> >>>> But I DO think we need legislative action to protect Missourians from >>>> bad legislation being developed in DC. The proposed "food safety bill" >>>> frankly terrifies me. Some of its provisions would effectively outlaw >>>> practices I believe are required by our way of life and our beliefs. Not >>>> only would I be willing to die to protect that way of life, but I believe >>>> our religion would require us to do so: it would be immoral to comply with >>>> an illegal law in that respect. Obviously, however, I would rather things >>>> not come to that. We just want to be left in peace to live the best lives >>>> we >>>> know how. >>>> >>>> If I had to choose between evils, I would support this legislation even >>>> though it might prevent communities from regulating CAFOs IF I was certain >>>> it would protect small farms. I would rather work on reigning in CAFOs by >>>> taking away the support of the communities: if people do not buy from >>>> horrid >>>> industrial farms, then they cannot survive or at least will not be as >>>> prevalent. People have a choice and need to take responsibility for that >>>> choice. If people want to buy $0.89/pound frankenchickens, then those >>>> chickens will be produced by big business. We cannot expect to buy from the >>>> lowest bidder at all times and still expect them to be humanely raised; it >>>> is hard to say why mass-production animal producers would be immoral but >>>> the >>>> people who eat their products would not. If I have a right to raise animals >>>> my way, then perhaps, as much as I disagree with the practice, they have >>>> the >>>> right to raise them their way. We all answer to their Maker and ours in the >>>> end. >>>> >>>> Sorry, that seems like an awful lot of words for me to say, "I'm >>>> undecided." >>>> >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Eric Vought >>>> "Faith does not absolve us from trying to understand our world and make >>>> moral distinctions with the eyes and brain given us. Religion is as much >>>> responsibility as direction: Duty not Distinction." >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no >>>> responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. >>>> If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it >>>> or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, >>>> you will be here forever. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no >>> responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If >>> you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or >>> leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you >>> will be here forever. >>> >>> -- >>> This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no >>> responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If >>> you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or >>> leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you >>> will be here forever. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> "no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it" >> ~Will Turner~ >> ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ >> >> "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are >> free." ~Goethe >> >> www.moliberty.org >> >> http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com >> >> The power to tax involves the power to destroy. >> ~Justice John Marshall~ >> >> Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics >> won't take an interest in you! >> -Pericles (430 B.C.) >> >> A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. >> ~Justice John Marshall~ >> >> >> >> -- >> This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no >> responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If >> you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or >> leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you >> will be here forever. >> >> -- >> This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no >> responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If >> you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or >> leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you >> will be here forever. >> > > -- > This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no > responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If > you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or > leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you > will be here forever. > -- "no cause is lost if there is but one fool to fight for it" ~Will Turner~ ~Pirate's of the Caribbean @ World's End~ "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." ~Goethe www.moliberty.org http://417-political-pundit.blogspot.com The power to tax involves the power to destroy. ~Justice John Marshall~ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -Pericles (430 B.C.) A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. ~Justice John Marshall~ -- This is a Free Speech forum. The owner of this list assumes no responsibility for the intellectual or emotional maturity of its members. If you do not like what is being said here, filter it to trash, ignore it or leave. If you leave, learn how to do this for yourself. If you do not, you will be here forever.
