<x-html><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>
<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=2>From the testing and development we've done with turbocharged VWs rarely is five minutes required for cool down. The point of idling is to reduce EGT's (exhaust gas temps) so oil won't coke in the bearing section. BTW we use water cooled bearing sections in all of our kits. Typically you'll see 600-800 deg.F in 8V and 16V VWs at idle. Cruising on the free way or in regular daily driving your EGT's hover around 1100-1200 deg F. 30-40 seconds of idle or simply not bringing the car on boost for the last couple minutes of a drive will drop the EGTs to within 100 deg F of normal idle temps. Turbo timers are a very cost effective way to lock the car walk away and have it shut off after a predetermined time. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2> The only reason a turbo car would need to warm up fully before using the happy pedal is for oil pressures to drop. 16Vs have tremendous oil pressure on start up ~70psi @ idle, well over 100psi with higher RPMs. At 75psi oil will push past the seals in bearing section and into the turbine and compressor housing. This is easily avoided by properly designed oil feed and return lines to limit overall pressure to the bearing section. Best of luck</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2><BR>Joshua Murray<BR>Matrix Engineering<BR>877.290.0661 orders<BR>503.691.1541 tech<BR><A href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From: </B>Clayton <<A href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</A>><BR><B>To: </B><A href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</A> <<A href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</A>><BR><B>Date: </B>Friday, January 28, 2000 9:15 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Turbo vs Supercharger? Not as long<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>I would agree with most of what you said except the heat can be a problem only if you are raving, er racing. The heat problem comes in with normal day to day driving where the car, for most people, never has a chance to warm up. You can never give your car full foot until a turbo car really warms up, if you want it to last 100,000 miles. Also, everytime you stop your car it really is a good idea to idle the thing for five minutes... I had a turbo Rabbit and believe me, that idle thing is a PAIN IN THE ASS! Can you imagine running over to the store and idling for five, then going to the Sushi place, idling for five minutes, then here, another five, then there another five... it really adds up. Now, you don't actually need to be in the car but it's not very practical for a daily driver. New cars are a totally different matter where they have coolant pumps and stuff like that which run even when the car is off but rarely does a retrofit kit have that kind of sophistication. Boy, did it ever feel cool to get all that boost though! <BR>Later, <BR>Clayton <BR><I></I> <I></I> <P><I>Heat can be a problem if you are racing. On the street with the volume</I> <BR><I>of air flowing through the engine compartment you would be hard pressed to</I> <BR><I>maintain over 130 degrees (given 80 degree ambient) under hood with a turbo.</I> <BR><I>We've done back to back testing before and after turbo installs and rarely</I> <BR><I>have seen more than a 10 degree jump. What can be a problem are things</I> <BR><I>directly around the turbine housing (hot housing). Wiring, hose, whatever it</I> <BR><I>is if it's too close it will be cooked. Proper measures need to be taken</I> <BR><I>during the design phase to locate the turbo away from hazards. Also generous</I> <BR><I>amounts of heat shielding will solve just about any heat problem.</I> _____________ List Sponsor: http://www.netsville.com To remove yourself from this list, send mail to [email protected] with 'unsubscribe a2_16v' in the body of your message See us on the web at http://www.a2-16v.com Visit the 16V Homepage at http://www.gti16v.org </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> </x-html>From ???@??? Sat Jan 29 11:48:36 2000 Received: from relay1.bu.edu (RELAY1.BU.EDU [128.197.153.99]) by acs-mail.bu.edu ((8.9.3.buoit.v1.0.ACS)/BU_Server-1.3) with ESMTP id XAA50090 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:39:06 -0500 Received: from smtp.netsville.com (jupiter.netsville.com [216.42.80.24]) by relay1.bu.edu ((8.9.3.buoit.v1.0)/8.8.5/(BU-RELAY-11/18/99-b2)) with ESMTP id XAA23025 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:39:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smtp.netsville.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24549 for a2_16v-outgoing; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:32:04 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <00b101bf6a11$97523a40$02000003@p2n3x9> From: "joshua@matrix" <[email protected]> To: "Clayton" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Fw: Turbo vs Supercharger? Not as long Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:30:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AE_01BF69CE.87F19840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: 3901009adec32ef1c7e01ea8ca195b56 <x-html><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>In case this didn't hit the list, I didn't see it anyway.... :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR> </DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT size=2>From the testing and development we've done with turbocharged VWs rarely is five minutes required for cool down. The point of idling is to reduce EGT's (exhaust gas temps) so oil won't coke in the bearing section. BTW we use water cooled bearing sections in all of our kits. Typically you'll see 600-800 deg.F in 8V and 16V VWs at idle. Cruising on the free way or in regular daily driving your EGT's hover around 1100-1200 deg F. 30-40 seconds of idle or simply not bringing the car on boost for the last couple minutes of a drive will drop the EGTs to within 100 deg F of normal idle temps. Turbo timers are a very cost effective way to lock the car walk away and have it shut off after a predetermined time. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2> The only reason a turbo car would need to warm up fully before using the happy pedal is for oil pressures to drop. 16Vs have tremendous oil pressure on start up ~70psi @ idle, well over 100psi with higher RPMs. At 75psi oil will push past the seals in bearing section and into the turbine and compressor housing. This is easily avoided by properly designed oil feed and return lines to limit overall pressure to the bearing section. Best of luck</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2><BR>Joshua Murray<BR>Matrix Engineering<BR>877.290.0661 orders<BR>503.691.1541 tech<BR><A href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From: </B>Clayton <<A href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</A>><BR><B>To: </B><A href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</A> <<A href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</A>><BR><B>Date: </B>Friday, January 28, 2000 9:15 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Turbo vs Supercharger? Not as long<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>I would agree with most of what you said except the heat can be a problem only if you are raving, er racing. The heat problem comes in with normal day to day driving where the car, for most people, never has a chance to warm up. You can never give your car full foot until a turbo car really warms up, if you want it to last 100,000 miles. Also, everytime you stop your car it really is a good idea to idle the thing for five minutes... I had a turbo Rabbit and believe me, that idle thing is a PAIN IN THE ASS! Can you imagine running over to the store and idling for five, then going to the Sushi place, idling for five minutes, then here, another five, then there another five... it really adds up. Now, you don't actually need to be in the car but it's not very practical for a daily driver. New cars are a totally different matter where they have coolant pumps and stuff like that which run even when the car is off but rarely does a retrofit kit have that kind of sophistication. Boy, did it ever feel cool to get all that boost though! <BR>Later, <BR>Clayton <BR><I></I> <I></I> <P><I>Heat can be a problem if you are racing. On the street with the volume</I> <BR><I>of air flowing through the engine compartment you would be hard pressed to</I> <BR><I>maintain over 130 degrees (given 80 degree ambient) under hood with a turbo.</I> <BR><I>We've done back to back testing before and after turbo installs and rarely</I> <BR><I>have seen more than a 10 degree jump. What can be a problem are things</I> <BR><I>directly around the turbine housing (hot housing). Wiring, hose, whatever it</I> <BR><I>is if it's too close it will be cooked. Proper measures need to be taken</I> <BR><I>during the design phase to locate the turbo away from hazards. Also generous</I> <BR><I>amounts of heat shielding will solve just about any heat problem.</I> _____________ List Sponsor: http://www.netsville.com To remove yourself from this list, send mail to [email protected] with 'unsubscribe a2_16v' in the body of your message See us on the web at http://www.a2-16v.com Visit the 16V Homepage at http://www.gti16v.org </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> </x-html>From ???@??? Fri Feb 11 16:43:59 2000 Received: from relay1.bu.edu (RELAY1.BU.EDU [128.197.153.99]) by acs-mail.bu.edu ((8.9.3.buoit.v1.0.ACS)/BU_Server-1.3) with ESMTP id MAA35300 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:25:01 -0500 Received: from smtp.netsville.com (jupiter.netsville.com [216.42.80.24]) by relay1.bu.edu ((8.9.3.buoit.v1.0)/8.8.5/(BU-RELAY-11/18/99-b2)) with ESMTP id MAA05340 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:25:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smtp.netsville.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23405 for a2_16v-outgoing; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:09:10 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <018601bf74b2$841606e0$02000003@p2n3x9> From: "joshua@matrix" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Dyno/Fuel Pressure/Delivery Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:07:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk X-UIDL: cda188cffbb9da901e00c755951d6ae4 15% is the rule of thumb. Best of luck Joshua Murray Matrix Engineering 877.290.0661 orders 503.691.1541 tech [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:48 PM Subject: Re: Dyno/Fuel Pressure/Delivery >In a message dated 2/10/00 9:20:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, >[email protected] writes: > ><< Fred, I have everything you have done to your motor except that I have >stock sized pistons... the balancing is more for smooth > running up high and the forged pistons don't give hp or torque. So, >anyways, I have about 134 or so HP at the wheels according to > Dynojet. That translates to 157@15% and 163@18% eff. losses. When I called >the Neuspeed tech department, they told me that a > typical VW loses around 18% and that is what they use for their wheel to >crank conversions. >- That doesn't sound right. If I remember correctly, the figure is more like >21-22% (which would mean you're making more power at the crank). > >Alex. >_____________ >List Sponsor: http://www.netsville.com >To remove yourself from this list, send mail to [email protected] with 'unsubscribe a2_16v' in the body of your message >See us on the web at http://www.a2-16v.com >Visit the 16V Homepage at http://www.gti16v.org > _____________ List Sponsor: http://www.netsville.com To remove yourself from this list, send mail to [email protected] with 'unsubscribe a2_16v' in the body of your message See us on the web at http://www.a2-16v.com Visit the 16V Homepage at http://www.gti16v.org
