Ye! let's kill them all!! err..i mean...nice points there...
imhatra li with all those good points they still get their standard approved >.< On 8/9/07, Philip Serracino Inglott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for that update! > > But I'm still unclear about how the committee is formed. Is it by > invitation on behalf of MSA? > How do Fenech & Fenech come into this? What about other NGOs that might > be interested? > Can others participate without a vote? > > Probably I should be asking MSA directly, but since Ramon is our contact > point there, maybe you could ask them. > > Thanks > > Philip > > Ramon Casha wrote: > > Hello everyone. > > Yes, the meeting took place yesterday. Apparently FFII had their date wrong. > > I received an invitation from Michael Cassar of MSA, since I had already > participated in a number of technical committees with MSA related to language > and localization. I didn't realise others could attend. > > The meeting was the first one for the newly-being-set-up technical committee > (TC) which will mirror the JTC1, an ISO committee for all things IT related. > It was set up rather hurriedly, with some pressure from Microsoft, to vote on > the OOXML standard however that will only be its first task - it's an ongoing > committee which will have other meetings to decide on other matters. > > The meeting was attended by Michael Cassar, Frank Balzan and George Cutajar > from MSA itself, Pierre Mallia (Microsoft Malta), Antonio Ghio (laywer, > Fenech & Fenech), John Abela from University, Pierre Vella from MITTS, Sandro > Grech from Exigy (a Microsoft Gold Partner), and yours truly. > > At the start of the meeting, Michael Cassar (MSA) explained something about > the composition of such TCs - namely that companies are not represented on > TCs, but only NGOs and other bodies, like the FOI and Chamber of Commerce. > Each of these can send more than one representative but they will have one > vote each. Thus, Microsoft Malta or Exigy cannot be represented as such, but > the FOI can select an individual from Microsoft Malta as its nominee. The > MLUG is an NGO. MITTS seems to be kinda "not exactly a company". For the > rest, they will need to produce something - even an email - from the > respective body such as FOI, confirming them as their nominee. Once on the TC > however, all individuals are supposed to be working for the common good, not > representing their own companies or groups. All this seems to have taken > Pierre Mallia by surprise, and they have some reservations about whether they > will manage to get the requisite approval from University, FOI, Chamber etc. > > Afterwards, Pierre Mallia introduced the only topic on the agenda - the OOXML > proposed standard. After giving a brief introduction about the proposed > standard, I moved a 3-point objection. The text of a document I distributed > is found below: > > ----start > Arguments about DIS 29500 (OOXML) > > One standard, one test, accepted everywhere? > > Item 2.2 in the "fast track procedure" is "to ascertain that there is no > evident contradiction with other International Standards". ISO's own aim is > for "one standard, one test, and one conformity assessment procedure accepted > everywhere". However, ISO already has an existing standard for an XML office > document format. ISO/IEC 26300 describes the document format commonly known > as ODF (Open Document Format). This format is already used by a number of > software packages, including OpenOffice.org, KOffice, Google Documents and > others - a total of over 30 applications. > > Even Microsoft Office 2007 has the ability to store its documents in the ODF > format, through a Microsoft-sponsored ODF converter. The site for this > project states as its goal "to provide translators to allow for > interoperability between applications based on ODF (OpenDocument) 1.0 > standards and Microsoft OpenXML based Office applications." > > In addition to needlessly defining a new document standard, OOXML defines > several new formats instead of using existing and established standards. For > example: > > * SpreadsheetML uses decimal time instead of ISO8601. The decimal time > format contains errors such as treating 1900 as a leap year. In fact the > OOXML specification forbids applications from supporting dates before 1900. > * DrawingML is used instead of SVG (W3C standard) or ISO/IEC 26300:2006. > * a new mathematical format instead of MathML (W3C standard) > * book 4 section 2.18.66 uses a new numbering format instead of ISO 10646. > * OOXML uses its own list of language codes instead of ISO639. > * OOXML defines its own hashing algorithms instead of ISO/IEC 10118-3 or > W3C XML-ENC. > > In part due to its failure to use existing standards, the full OOXML standard > is over 6,000 pages long (about 10 times the ODF standard). To fast-track > this specification leaves insufficient time for proper evaluation - a mere 30 > day evaluation period. In addition, the JTC directives state that "the > specification shall have had sufficient review over an extended time period > to characterise it as being stable." > > The new proposed format "was designed from the start to be capable of > faithfully representing the pre-existing corpus of word-processing documents, > presentations, and spreadsheets that are encoded in binary formats defined by > Microsoft Corporation." However a standard must not be tied to any specific > vendor or product. By comparison, the ODF was created by OASIS (Organization > for the Advancement of Structured Information Standards), a wide consortium > which includes many representatives of the IT industry - including Microsoft > - to be able to represent documents from any vendor or product. > > The document is full of proprietary elements and attributes like > autoSpaceLikeWord95, useWord97LineBreakRules, useWord2002TableStyleRules. > Some elements require implementers to implement certain proprietary binary > formats, including Microsoft's own older document formats, which are not open > standards, often undocumented and sold under licenses that specifically > prohibit reverse-engineering or reimplementation. > > The OOXML standard leaves many elements undefined. For example in book 4 > section 6.1.2.19, in the equationxml attribute of the shape element the > "actual format of the contents of this attribute are application-defined". > Similarly, it refers to styles like apples, scaredCat, heebieJeebies, which > are incompletely defined (e.g missing height, width, color-depth, > orientation). Line styles babyRattle, balloonsHotair, etc provide no details > on horizontal, vertical and corner scenarios. > > Resources and references > > Comprehensive list of objections to OOXML: > http://www.grokdoc.net/index.php/EOOXML_objections > Microsoft's ODF plugin for Office: > http://sourceforge.net/projects/odf-converter > Applications supporting ODF: > http://www.opendocumentfellowship.org/applications > > ----end > > During this discussion, the first argument was pretty much discarded. However > there was quite a bit of interest about the other points - namely that the > specification is incomplete, and that it depends on proprietary products. In > view of this, I am preparing a more comprehensive document concentrating on > the flaws in the specification itself. I've found quite a few resources on > the web. > > The next meeting is slated for Monday 20th August. > > > > > Ramon Casha > Software Services > Megabyte Limited (www.megabyte.net) > F4, The Technopark, Mosta MST3000, Malta > tel (+356) 21421600 - fax (+356) 21421590 > Megabyte > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On > Behalf Of Gregory Smirnov > Sent: Il-Ħamis, 9 ta' Awissu 2007 09:23 > To: Malta Linux User Group - general list > Subject: Re: [LINUX.ORG.MT] Fwd: URGENT: OOXML in Malta: meeting tomorrow > > Philip, > > Fist, my apologies for delayed post. But I was far from Internet and found it > only today morning. I think more people in Malta received same post, but > nobody forwarded it here. > > Huh! As I just learned now, meeting actually happend yesterday... > I think we will hear from them today, and get some light on what has happened. > > Gregory. > > On Thursday 09 August 2007 08:53:26 Philip Serracino Inglott wrote: > > Why do we get to know about this now? Is there more info? Who will attend > etc... Can I? Should I attend? > > Philip > > _______________________________________________ > MLUG-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED]://mailserv.megabyte.net/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > Tel: (+356) 21421600 URL: www.megabyte.net > Fax: (+356) 21421590 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > DISCLAIMER > > The information contained in this electronic mail may be confidential or > legally privileged. It is for the intended recipient(s) only. Should you > receive this message in error, please notify the sender by replying to this > mail. Unauthorised use of the contents is strictly prohibited. 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