> On Mar 9, 2015, at 11:17 AM, Ryan Kaldari <rkald...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > > Call me old-fashioned, but I would really hate to see the lead sentences of > Wikipedia articles auto-generated by a program. Our text is dry and > monotonous enough as it is :)
+1 > >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 5:05 AM, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I agree with Magnus that it should be Wikidata to the rescue for problems >> like these, not some new policy that throws current WP contributors into a >> tizzy. I am not sure how precisely, but maybe if all parts of a lead >> sentence were in Wikidata then one could then experiment with a new Wikidata >> property for "Mobile lead" which could first be seeded with the label and >> barring that the WP lead? >> >>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Amir E. Aharoni >>> <amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote: >>> I'll state a bunch of things that are obvious to me, but should probably be >>> written down in some way... >>> >>> IPA, other names, and names in other languages indeed make reading harder. >>> They are there because of a tradition. There's a tradition of printing >>> encyclopedia articles like this (that's also where the bold font in each >>> articles' first words comes from). Just open any printed encyclopedia. It's >>> a nice continuation of tradition, and Wikipedia takes it to extremes thanks >>> to the blessings of Unicode - old printed encyclopedias were lucky to have >>> Cyrillic characters in their typography, and some good ones had IPA, >>> Arabic, and Devanagari, but you won't find pervasive use of Georgian or >>> Kannada in a lot of printed encyclopedias. We have pretty much everything >>> in Wikipdeia. The information is valuable, but having it all in parentheses >>> in the first sentence begins to be non-practical. >>> >>> It will help to at least be aware that a proposal to change this will break >>> with traditions; traditions must be treated with respect. But in the 21st >>> century on the web it may make sense to transfer IPA and names in other >>> languages to the infobox. Other names in the same language will probably >>> have to stay in the opening sentence, because article naming is a >>> super-contentious issue. >>> >>> And yes, the Foundation has no authority to just change it, because it's a >>> matter for the Manual of Style, which is owned by the community (in all >>> languages). As a member of the editing community, I would support it, and I >>> even mentioned it on mailing lists in the past (too busy to search where), >>> but it needs to go through proper discussion. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >>> “We're living in pieces, >>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore >>> >>> 2015-03-07 2:49 GMT+02:00 Dan Garry <dga...@wikimedia.org>: >>>> (moving to mobile-l) >>>> >>>> Thanks Vibha, this is really informative. >>>> >>>> It's very clear that our first sentences really suck for supporting quick >>>> lookup, primarily because their information hierarchy is all wrong. That >>>> said, it's important to remember that we now have Wikidata descriptions >>>> displayed in the apps for this exact reason: to let people find out >>>> quickly and easily what something is. >>>> >>>> So, although I agree that our first sentences are suboptimal, it's >>>> important to put the problem in context and remember that users do have >>>> Wikidata descriptions now to satisfy this use case. It's not like we're >>>> totally failing them, we could just be doing a bit better. >>>> >>>> Rather than piling on hacks by trying to scrape the content in the first >>>> sentence and reorganise it (which causes information loss, and is >>>> extremely fragile from a technological perspective), the long term >>>> solution is, at least to me, to invest in is getting our engaged readers >>>> to write clear, coherent Wikidata descriptions. These can then be used >>>> across all platforms to support that workflow. >>>> >>>> Of course, there may be room for some quick wins that we can put in place >>>> while we figure out truly compelling UX for getting readers to submit >>>> descriptions. We can explore those quick wins in our brainstorming >>>> session on Monday. But we must remember that these will only be >>>> short-term, hacky solutions to the problem, and that we need to address >>>> this problem at the source in order to be really successful at it. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>>> On 6 March 2015 at 16:13, Jon Robson <jrob...@wikimedia.org> wrote: >>>>> Any reason this is on mobile-tech and not mobile-l (I'd love to hear from >>>>> people like Amir on this subject)? It would be good to flag this problem >>>>> to a wider audience and part of our problem with most mobile issues is >>>>> people just are not aware of this sort of thing. Many probably haven't >>>>> even heard of the hemingway app... >>>>> >>>>> It would be interesting to see how a wikidata generated first sentence >>>>> would score with the same app. >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Vibha Bamba <vba...@wikimedia.org> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Folks, >>>>>> Kaity and I used the Hemingway app to analyze the readability of our >>>>>> first sentence, using a few articles. They all scored poorly, an ideal >>>>>> grade level of 10 is recommended for clear bold writing. >>>>>> >>>>>> This difficult problem arises from the first sentence containing one or >>>>>> more of the following: >>>>>> IPA Keys >>>>>> Birth/ death dates >>>>>> Other Names/ AKA's >>>>>> Help/info links >>>>>> Alternate spellings and scripts >>>>>> Additional details >>>>>> Details like dates are replicated in the infobox, if it exists in the >>>>>> article. >>>>>> Other templates such as AKA's/IPA's are extremely useful but need to be >>>>>> presented in a clear and structured manner. Some of this comes from the >>>>>> Manual of style, but it is abused in many cases. >>>>>> >>>>>> Its sad, because many readers come to Wikipedia to answer the 'What is >>>>>> this/ who is this' question. Google Knowledge panel strips out all >>>>>> brackets and presents important details as a list, under the >>>>>> description. >>>>>> >>>>>> We have started investigating solutions for this on mobile. I would >>>>>> encourage you to try this out on mobile web or apps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> Vibha & Kaity >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> >>>>>> Articles we used: >>>>>> Bern >>>>>> Genghis Khan >>>>>> Cephalopod >>>>>> Mahatma Gandhi >>>>>> Nietzsche >>>>>> Carthage >>>>>> Phoenicia >>>>>> Timur >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> Vibha Bamba >>>>>> Senior Designer | WMF Design >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dan Garry >>>> Associate Product Manager, Mobile Apps >>>> Wikimedia Foundation >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mobile-l mailing list >>>> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mobile-l mailing list >>> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobile-l mailing list >> Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile-l mailing list > Mobile-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
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