well, I think that maybe we are getting a bit off topic now...
however, for those who wish to continue...
I wasn't suggesting that RPMs in general were bad (as I said, I am RPM
impaired). To the contrary, I think that in order for Linux to succeed, it
needs an InstallShield type of tool - RPMs fill that need quite nicely, and
I still depend on them for stuff like Netscape, Gimp, etc. I didn't mean to
offend, really, or start another holy war ;)
However, my experience with the mod_perl RPM from RH5.2 was not the
greatest. Others have had similar experiences to mine. It also appears,
from the comments today, that the 6.0 RPMs are working out of the box, which
is a good thing. I agree that having a working RPM at first is great, and
that compiling your own is a better way to learn various nuances. Actually,
if the RPM were fully tricked out, that would probably be best (libapreq and
all) so that when someone reads the eagle book and tries an exercise, they
aren't confused because a mod_perl part wasn't enabled.
I don't think that we ought to be assuming that everyone has make, gcc, and
other such tools as standard equipment. As Linux rolls out into the
mainstream (more than it already is, that is) you can be less certain of
things like that. I think that my old 5.2 install had a development check
box during the custom install that I left unchecked, so make was not part of
my system initially. At the time, I was just messing around. When I
decided to get a little more serious about stuff, figuring out what was
missing was a chore.
But hey, isn't the point of the Guide to provide info like that - getting
off the ground type of stuff? Given the discussion thus far, maybe a
section on RPMs is necessary, if just to dispel the rumors that mod_perl
RPMs are bad (you just need the right ones?) And I still think that, since
the Guide explains how to roll your own mod_perl, that the tools needed to
do it would help lots of folks.
--Geoff
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stas Bekman [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:31 AM
> To: David Harris
> Cc: Young, Geoffrey S.; mod_perl list
> Subject: Re: New mod_perl RPM really needed? (was: sourcegarden plug)
>
> > > Thus, it might be worth mentioning that RPMs are a _bad_ idea for
> > > those just getting into mod_perl. That is, unless others have been
> more
> > > successful that I...
>
> RPMs aren't bad. You should understand something. RPMs and other packaging
> systems were developed to enable distributing many or single pieces of
> software, which will plug in and work the moment they are installed. RPMs
> also make it very easy to incorporate your own patches into a basic tar.gz
> of any sw. When you don't really understand how RPM works, and how to
> write SRPM (source RPMs), it's a black box for you. And when it doesn't
> work you blame the one who made this box for you.
>
> When you install gcc*.rpm, do you complain about it? mostly not. Why?
> because it's something that use without special needs. It's easy to make a
> mod_perl RPM to handle some basic stuff. But if you are a real user of
> mod_perl you want to discover many of its not so strightforward features,
> then RPM doesn't fit you and you have to roll you own build
>
> RedHat makes RPMs the way it find correct. If it doesn't fit your needs
> make your own RPM and contribute it to both RH and us, so others will be
> able to use it. It's so simple.
>
> Even better give us a SRPM, the user will have to build it himself, but
> once he build ot from sources, it's promised that everything would work.
> All it takes is:
>
> rpm --rebuild somepackage.src.rpm
>
> And of course, you have all the development tools, this is something
> obvious (Am I wrong?), I'm not sure how can you run your own machine
> without having make and other tools. May be I'm too biased. Should we
> write a guide of how to compile a c program and where to get the tools
> from? I don't know may be we should...
>
> > A while ago in his "sourcegarden plug" thread Stas wrote:
> > > Jim, one of the "services" we _want_ to provide at mod_perl Source
> Garden
> > > (modperl.sourcegarden.org) is prebuilded mod_perl RPMs in its various
> > > configurations and for mainly used platforms. Taken that we are only a
> few
> > > folks who actually contributing to this project, this item is not on
> the
> > > top of our priorities.
> > >
> > > I wonder if you or someone else may want to step in, and to start
> creating
> > > correctly prebuilded SRPMs and RPMs, and if later feel that it's not
> > > challenging (which I've found quite challenging, YMMV), someone else
> will
> > > pick the falling flag. But it's definitely a good way to learn
> creating
> > > RPMs which are very usefull, contributing back to our community, (and
> > > fighting our mutual enemy :)
> >
> > I'm basically saying that I could do this and put together some
> mod_perl+Apache
> > and libapreq RPM's today.. but I'm just wondering if it's really needed.
>
> I think it would help. If you succeed to build a good SRPM for a general
> purpose usage, we ether can ask RH to put it in, or can put it on
> sourcegarden or perl.apache.org - it's not an issue. Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Stas Bekman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.singlesheaven.com/stas
> Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC at www.singlesheaven.com/stas/TULARC
> www.apache.org & www.perl.com == www.modperl.com || perl.apache.org
> single o-> + single o-+ = singlesheaven http://www.singlesheaven.com
