Sorry, it's an accident to reply to the list.
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Zhu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "mod_perl List"
<modperl@perl.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] modperl vs. Ruby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "mod_perl List" <modperl@perl.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] modperl vs. Ruby
there's been a popular link critiquing rails floating around
http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.309321.3
personally, I hate rails. i'm seeing a lot of colleagues adopt it,
with a combination of this reasoning:
it 'sucks less than php' ( from someone with a php book )
its perfect for doing small sites regardless of traffic
remember, there are 2 types of scaling :
a- lots of users / content
b- lots of hits
rails can scale on b reasonably well behind lighty w/fcgi. just
loadbalance and toss server after server into a cluster.
the bulk of its use is design shop stuff
but all my colleagues/friends work for design shops
not to knock rails, but the biggest project they've been implemented
with , as far as i can tell, is odeo. lots of other projects are done in
it, but none that scale in use and content like that one, and it doesn't
really impress me. there could be something else out there, but i've
yet to see it. all the projects i've seen done on it are blogs, small
sharing apps, design agency stuff, etc. it does that stuff really well
and really fast, but there's no breadth to it. AFAIK the big blog
implementation service that touts rails is run as multiple installations
each behind their own lighty instance with fcgi support.
this fall, I quit my FT job to start an online sharing / syndication
service that will hopefully go live within the month.
i evaluated a ton of frameworks and languages, here's how i felt:
ruby - rails was getting all the hype. i tried rails and had a webapp
running in minutes. it was a sheer pleasure as promised. except rails
couldn't do what i wanted to do for my project. it was way to strict.
its made for building a certain type of application - not every
application.
c - would have been the fastest to run and scale the best. nightmare to
write.
php - i found it a nightmare to maintain code and enforce MVC, and i
intensely dislike the model of everything essentially being a cgi
script. i wanted everything compiled into the server, as i'm running a
single service, not 20 differentn projects for 20 clients like I managed
at my old design agency.
python - the spec on the twisted framework kept changing. django was
too Rail's-ish in scope. turbogears didn't exist yet, but also a bit
too rails-ish for me.
perl - i don't like template toolkit or mason. i know many do. i just
don't. they're both very perlish in the templates. catalyst wasn't
really around yet - maypole was, but also too rails ish.
i ended up building my own MVC 'framework' under mp2. i get all the
speed and server integration that I wanted. i'm tossing framework in
quotes, because everything is too built-into my app. i'd love to pull
it out and release it, but its not there yet. it basically just does
url dispatching to perl modules + session control in a standardized
manner, and has an abstracted api for content rendering. all html
pages are written TAL, because I use python to prototype objects and
methods and handle admin tasks. this lets me use the same exact
templates for prototyping. one might think that perl or ruby is
fast/easy to write - well (for me)python is a fraction of it -- and
program/test in python than port to mod_perl is way faster (again for me
than ) doing everything in mod_perl.
i think the reasons why rails gets so much hype are this:
it makes building a certain type of project easy. those projects are
'popular' as are the companies building them. so when people talk about
it, others listen.
its gaining a lot of ground w/newcomers to web building, as its easy and
intuitive. so more people talk about it.
it converts a lot of people from .NET or java, who hear the hype and
give it a shot. truth be told, they find it a dream. who wouldn't
after that conversion?
so depending on what you're building, RoR may be the best framework for
you, or a complete nightmare. its certainly not the jack-of-all- trades,
and neither is catalyst. using any framework or language, your milage
WILL vary compared to others.
On Feb 25, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Mark Galbreath wrote:
which then begs the question, why RoR and not Catalyst?
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