Julez.. thanks for the reply.. I learn from every message..
>John Drefahl wrote:
>> Argh, pinned as a fashion whore yuppie before I could even say a >word..
>Didn't say you were, and I wouldn't be quite so familiar with the
>contents of Wallpaper and GQ, or Autumn/Winter menswear trends if I
>didn't read them too. It's just the question of whether you think
>anything can ever translate from those pages into a real youth style,
>rather than high-end fashion for well-paid 25-35 year olds.
I think I was speaking of a much narrower sliver of society. By all
means I don't want for you to come to the conclusion that all readers
of GQ and Wallpaper could be noted as being apart of the modish
movement I was describing. I make my statements based on these
following factors. Many young professionals are making a lot more
money then in the past. This increased income allows someone who is
relatively young to become a buying force to deal with. I just see a
very similar style, look, and feel amongst a small number of young
professionals that reminds me of what I would picture a mod to be.
That's all I am trying to say. Magazines like Wallpaper I think
really do a good job to present an international selection of modern
fashion, modern technology, internationalism, modern architecture,
and most of all modern living. So this may not fall into the cookie
cutter of what is the original MOD. But it does share some unique
tastes and interests. One last thing.. "High End fashion for well
paid 25-35 year olds" basically sums up the roots of the original mod
movements. Many attribute mod happening only because of increased
buying power of the English youth. I just see this buying power
growing increasingly stronger again as it has been for the last 10
years.
> > As I said.. the substance of this new mod culture I am sure is
>> lacking.. but I still can't understand this behavior to expect new
>> mods to listen to old mod music.
>Did I mention old music?
>Though to repeat - because otherwise you're something else - why bother
>being a 'mod' rather than a 'raver', Britpop kid, or Latin-House fan,
>unless you think the mods had something these things lack. And that's
>Jimmy Smith records. And a subculture without substance is just fashion.
I agree, without substance its just fashion.. but don't piss on
fashion too hard. It visually defines a movement in many ways.. but
a movement will lose its strength if it has no substance. As for
falling into subculture labels... Hmm when I was young I became apart
of many subcultures in order to find an identity. Yes sad as it
sounds.. but as humans.. we are pretty sad when it comes to our need
for acceptance. For mod.. well I didn't go out one day and say,
"Damn mod looks cool, lets do that.." Had known about mods for
years.. never really intrigued me until I actually started to relate
to them. Once I started to relate to them because of my job, my
life, and all the things that interest me.. I found mod's
subculture.. more or less adopting me.. I just ended up fitting the
mold.. and though I don't consider myself really a full time,
dedicated, in it to win it, mod.. I do find a uncanny similarity
between my views on the world and life and the generic mod views. I
just like to converse with interesting like minded individuals.. If
that lumps me in the mods.. well so be it.. If it doesn't.. well so
be it too..
> > While mod's roots are in blues,
>> soul, and jazz one should pigeon hole a social movement to those two
>> things.
>Our two main weapons are blues, soul and jazz. Our three main weapons
>are blues, soul and jazz and a ruthless dedication to Paul Weller. Among
>our main weapons are . . . .
Err.. I was suppose to say "shouldn't pigeon hole". So let me explain
again.. Define a movement first and foremost.. Intellectually.. then
justify your music preferences with that.. There is a lot of good
music out there and you should never let a label ever stop you from
listening to it.
> > Music evolves, cultures evolve, mod will evolve with it. I
> > just can't take this 'please fill out your, 'are you a mod survey'
>> and return it to the head face for approval.."
>There's a little conjuring trick that some journalists have that I can't
>stand too. It's when they express some point of view, and then justify
>it not with an argument, but by the fact there's a large number of
>people who disagree with them.
I respect the past, but I don't think it is healthy to live in the
past. I think one can get more out of what has been done before by
applying the lessons learned to his present day situation. I just
expect mods to be.. modern. But that is my sole expectation alone.
>My apologies, but the Modish Inquisition does not actually exist. I've
>never had someone come round my flat and question the non-60s/non-mod
>records in my collection. I've never had anyone stop me going to a
>non-scene gig or club - in fact I've occasionally met mods at them too.
>
>And when mod does evolve, it often evolves into other things (the 70s
>rock scene, the acid jazz scene) - leaving the mod thing, well, mod. And
>people like yourself complaining about it just being itself. Eddie
>Pillar is alive and well and still DJing.
I would hope not.. I just always have a feeling that there is a
competition for something that really isn't worth competing about. I
think I really can't direct that statement to the "whole" so if you
took offense.. I apologize.. I am more or less just commenting on the
complete idiotic nature of some people to try and encapsulate a
movement. I think there is room for everyone and their opinions. So
more or less... its just dealing with the egos that come with the mod
scene.. New ideas shouldn't scare you.. just do what you want I
guess. And don't feel threatened when someone threatens your cookie
cutter mod mold. For new ideas bring new life into movements.. Old
tired ideas.. only kill them. That's all i am saying...
> > More or less I think
>> its fair to say that people today can adopt the mod look, feel, and
>> way of living and thinking and apply it to today's society and daily
>> life trials.
>John, not sure how aware you are in the US of our PM, Tony Blair, but he
>makes a lot of speeches using words like 'Modern' and 'New' and implying
>his enemies are stuck in the past and against change, while never really
>getting down to the nitty-gritty of specifics as to what he means by
>modern (mostly the same as new, which is mostly the same as the status
>quo). There's a similar content to your posts - we know what you're
>against (all us people stuck in the past with our Quannum albums and
>tickets for Broadcast), but we don't know what you stand FOR - except a
>passionate commitment to newness and modernity.
Actually I am not at all against anyone in the past.. I never wanted
that to be the message I was posting. Gosh, I listen to a lot of
early jazz as well as pop and punk.. Specifically because this list
has directed me to some absolutely great tunes. You know how it is..
You have an itch, but just don't know where to scratch it.. That's
what the mod list has done for me. I have these interests.. and
thank everyone on here who has helped me fulfill them. But.. I feel
that the mod movement really has lost its original modernism. The
edge of being new.. Rather it just sits in a time capsule ignoring
many of the great new ideas out there that really are very similar to
their own. Lets just put it this.. way... why sit and live in the
past.. wishing you were there.. when you can actually make it happen
again. Are you going to follow an old cultural revolution or create
a new one. You want to just check out the playbook or play the
fucking game. I think you are cheating yourselves. you're a mod..
you can't be stopped.. you are smarter then everyone.. go out and
change the world. Don't wait for Tony Blair to do it.. ;) (fuck that
sounds like a motivational speaker.. sorry)
My posts are only fun ... I post to debate.. I post to argue..
Because you learn so much from debating and arguing. At times you
are humbled and it sucks.. and at times you humble others and you
feel good. Some people are entertained by this.. like it, and enjoy
to post their opinions and debate mine. I always learn the most when
I am proved wrong.. and I have learned a lot from debating points of
view with members of the list.. that's all I am saying.
In the end I don't care what you do.. I just want to leave people
with a bit more of an open mind, and less of a robot.
> > Otherwise, you might as just say mod was as corny as
>> the Swing movement revival. I see it now.. "Dirty Dancing" Starring
>> PHIL DANIELS!
>On occasions it can be, but then it's not as if modern culture isn't
>above cheese - cheesy rave, cheesy rap, cheesy Britpop - they all exist.
>I can't speak about the Swing revival (though I'm sure there must be
>some outraged originators somewhere) as despite a few attempts here and
>there it never caught on in the UK, but I guess the comparison over here
>would be '70s nites' - and what makes these events cheesy isn't the
>music, but the punters attitudes. I guess the B52s and Austin Powers
>represent the 'corn' end of 60s revivalism. The mod scene doesn't - it's
>not kitsch, because it's punters aren't. Mostly they are living, not
>re-living. The 'I wish it was really 1964' brigade are actually the
>minority - even if most people look 60s (because that's the fashion, but
>isn't it THE fashion this year too?).
>
>> one thing? Yes this is America, I know.. but people still are pretty
>> private about their lives and don't wear there stances and views on
>> their shoulders. Why, because its a distraction from everyday life.
>> Hense the reason why I don't wear a suit to work every day or dress
>> mod every day is because I would distract my co-workers..
>Not to set myself up as the ace face or anything as someone from the
>list is bound to catch me one morning hungover and in blue jeans and a
>T-shirt but . . . I find it pretty impossible to go into work not
>dressed 'mod' to some degree or other, because that's whats in my
>wardrobe. And even when I do turn up wearing Jigsaw and Paul Smith,
>people still (when they were still bothered, they quickly get used to
>it) make comments / compliments about retro style. What's the point in
>making concessions to everyday life?
I mean work places are work places.. I have just taken a new job with
a big 5 music company and I will be doing a lot of international
travel. Which means I have to wear a lot of suits because its like
the international uniform.. and well I am actually happy with that..
Not because I can be mod.. but because those are the only clothes
that truly fit my skinny ass. ;) But I do understand what you are
saying. In america pop culture has invaded our work places.. we have
work dress trends.. Currently in NYC if you do not wear Kennith Cole
everything you will stick out like a sore thumb at work.. That's not
good.. People in America like conformity even though they go on and
on about individualism.. Hence the GAP and old Navy.. None the less..
I see your point.. in the perfect world I wouldn't make concessions
to everyday life.. I have fought it all my life.. trust me.. but when
it comes to money.. that's another matter.. Lets just put it this
way.. if I wore my suit to work.. I don't think my bosses would be
too cool with it.. they would assume I was going to interviews, and
such because bosses have such low expectations of workers here..
Dunno that's A WHOLE other argument. I fit the role I play.. lets
leave it at that.
>
>> but for the most parts the suits are
>> becoming slimmer, tighter
>I know that feeling.
>But more seriously - yes, it's the current declared trend by the fashion
>industry, so enjoy it while it lasts. And don't worry when it goes,
>because at the current speed of recycling it should be back in for 2003.
> > Once that
>> curiosity is caught.. they then will explore all the beautiful music
>> and culture that mod has been and always will be about.
>So what's so different about it this time, as opposed to 1997?
>
>ex-Brighton Beach punter/Britpop era mod, now wearing baggy skate gear
>talking to Mark Ellis:
>'Are you still into all that retro shit?'
>Mark: 'Why, what are you into these days?'
>Punter: 'Old-skool hip-hop'.
Well is that really that bad.. so what. he like old skool hiphop..
Does this mean that subscribe to Time magazine now, that I shouldn't
even consider taking a peak at a newsweek? Live and have fun.. But
you have to just forget about the idiots you meet on the way.
You asked early.. what do I stand for.. what is mod for me.. Hmmm..
you know what it changes every day.. I could get into the classic,
"Mod is great music, internationalism.." shit but I won't... I will
sum it up this way..
"To me mod is going outside on the sidewalks of new york.. Looking
around and realizing that very few have a clue, and only a handful
understand." A clue about what? you may ask.. well if you know you
know.. if you don't then you don't.
John
_________________________________________________________
Enlighten your in-box. http://www.topica.com/t/15
