Julez..
>John - sorry to drag this on, but I'd hardly say that me and Pablo are a
>'whole list' in disagreement with you, more like 2 out of 500 - and we
>both have very different opinions on the subject ourselves. And of
>course there's never going to be an end to this - as you've mentioned
>being into jungle in the past, it's a bit like trying to agree which of
>the many splits has been the 'true' way forward in the dance scene from
>it's Detroit and Chicago origins. Now look at mod tastes from the 60s
>and look at everything they led to . . .
Julez its not that it was dragging on forever.. I stepped on some
peoples very heartfelt emotions about mod. I can understand this
because I have been the same way about other things.. Jungle in
particular when it started to blow up.. (now its the soundtrack to
the World's Driving Experience.. IE: Car commercials). More or less
the stepping away part was because the discussion wasn't fun anymore
and I think I pushed as far as I could push.. Any more pushing on my
part would just be in vein you know what I am saying.
>On ideological grounds, I have NO problem with 'new modernism' -
>something I've tried to make clear with musical references. I've always
>said my favourite mod club was Where's Jude, not any Untouchables club
>or The Hideaway (much as I respect them). The problem I have with what
>you're saying is, to keep with Pablo's poker metaphor, you're keeping
>your hand to yourself. Apart from the bit about fashion leading to
>anything, which I don't agree with (as said, it didn't 3 years ago -
>what's different now?).
Never intended to force anything on you.. just was observing and
questioning.. More so out of curiosity for the reasons why you do
what you do rather then a mission to change your minds about
anything. But I will hold to my stance that after you take away all
the pills, the clothes, the art, the attitude, and the music to find
what was the initial spark of mod. I have to ask, is mod a
combination of all of these things together.. or is there more behind
mod then pills, music, suits, and vespas? Is there a psychology that
makes a mod a mod. Otherwise as far as I am concerned I believe
without substance you move from a movement to a trend. Thoughts
behind the actions is what I am trying to find.. What makes a mod a
mod?? Answer that question without answering with the generic, "A
mod is a person that likes modern jazz, soul, and early motown. Mods
ride scooters and wear suits." After we take all the toys and
material objects away tell me what separates you from the naked man
next to you.
These thoughts behind the actions obviously still exist today..
because we have 500 people on this list who consider themselves
somewhat mods. But in a day where the availability of the '60s mod
culture is only available in the major cities of the United States
and I would assume the world.. how are these mod thoughts manifesting
in our everyday thoughts and actions. As you said.. not everyones
style is to be a neo-modernist type.. and as you said keep your hands
to yourself. But in the same way.. 40 years after the mod movement
its safe to say that living mod is not always the most realistic idea
for someone who possesses the same state of mind as you. Function
over Form I guess you would call it.
In the end, looks like "Clean living under difficult circumstances"
is really the definition of mod.. the true defining factor of a mod.
A state of mind. Not a bunch of clothes and scooters. (which I do
love both off.. so please.. no emails saying "I love scooters you
bastard".)
>Also, I think it's a shame that you're dissapointed with the mod scene
>for not sharing your attitudes - surely it's more a problem with
>contemporary scenes that they're not embraced mod values and made them
>their own, like the kids at Boys Own or the Duffer/Acid Jazz axis did in
>the late 80s? Or that everyone who believes in a New Mod has such
>different ideas there's nothing in common between them - NuYorican House
>or Belle and Sebastian?
Don't worry I am usually disappointed by 75% of what I see. ;) Trust
me its a great outlook on life to take.. You get to see and live in a
lot of places because nothing is ever good enough. Now I am not going
to try and comment about your references to the late 80's mod
movement.. I wasn't in England and really can't relate any of the
cultural reasons why your country went through a mod phase. But I
can't really sit and grumble about what I know about the 80's mod
scene.. it had its own big influences on the shoegazer and manchester
scenes and eventually can be linked back to the creation of 'ardcore!
and jungle. Rather then slagging the late '80s movement you should
hold it as a trophy to another great advancement and achievement of
British culture and the ongoing mod movement. Those misguided and
different ideas seemed to have laid the foundations for your
countries two biggest pop culture movements of the 90's. Britpop and
Rave. One was such a huge pop culture movement your government made
it illegal for 5 people to dance in an open space to music. Criminal
Justice Act... as I remember..
Hotpants..
john
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Enlighten your in-box. http://www.topica.com/t/15
