> first off i'm confused about your use of the term > 'progressive political views' do you mean > progressive > in terms of liberal ideas that keep people's lives > in mind > and humane social policy? or are you saying > progressive in
I used progressive thinking of the dictionary definition. In other words ideas that progress the state of society. I don't mean liberal ideas because liberal ideas has gathered so much unrelated or unneccesary side issues that it is unhelpful. The problem with "ideologies" is that they generally provide short answers based on generalizations. When I imagine progressive ideas I imagine Mies van der Rohe the modernist architect. In many ways his ideas were about making society better. Allowing people access to things they couldn't have before (but needed) and smoothing out some of the wrinkles of society that prevented us from comfort. At the same time he was staunchly opposed to dogmas because they prevented us from thinking of new solutions for each problem and limited he scope from which a problem could be approached. Now just apply these concepts to political thought. > and in your case it seems like something combining > left > and right wing ideologies. I therefore would rather dismiss both left and right ideologies for something new altogether. However I recognize that within both ideologies there are a few ideas that will work. > but anyway, this isn't the discussion...the > discussion > at hand is the 'politics of modernism' first off, a > > great band fromb chicago a few years ago, the > adjusters > were rights up my alley...check out their > website..they're > around, and i know various members are still > very politically active and that's awesome: > www.theadjusters.com > dig the new mp3's they're pretty good give me some time on this > as for the subject of 'mods' being leftist, > conservative, > or apolitical, i would argue that it makes most > sense for > mods to be very leftist, if not radical ( i am not > saying > they SHOULD, i am > saying that it makes the most sense) I suspect that with the exception of a few the majority of mods are left in there politics. I suspect that is because left politics are less historically restricted and also because the ideas of their style of consumption seem consistent with the Marxist concept of dialectic(al?) materialism (at least as far as I understand the concept) > if mods really want to do something 'new' and > 'different' > why settle for something as minor and bourgeois as > new > clothes and new music (and in most cases even that > can't be > done!)? why not go for the glory and work on > something > REALLY new and serious like a new society, new work, > new > everything? if we're gonna do this, let's do this > for real! > what's 'new' about sitting in an office 40 hours a > week to > pay for more trinkets and gadgets and records? Why should we settle for the bourgeois methods of political discourse? What do you accomplish with traditional methods such as protest, petition and campaining? I suggest rather that we go to more fundemental methods of criticising and replacing old ideas. I normally envision this taking place in such forms as popular media that real people actually consume. How many leftists become involved in advertising? If you want to change the system that is probably the first place to go. Include new and better ideas as part and parcel of your messages. Also there seems to have been little done to change the tendency of society as a whole to either just accept what has already been done or to be reliant on traditional thought. > there's some platforms which i think modernism > stands on > that make it hard to distance itself from leftist or > radical political thought > > 1. internationalism internationalism in some senses (not so much the leftist political ones as the jet setting ideals in my experience but yeah I can go with that) > 2. multiculturalism certainly > 3. working class issues > (this one is kinda tough to prove but it's relation > to > skinhead culture is undeniable) This is probably related more to the economic situation of declining opportunities for youth as the skinhead movement gained momentum in the late sixties. However considering the current state of affairs this might be a harder case to make. I get the impression that there is a stong middle to upper class tendency among mods today. The tendency to leftist politics seems to be more of a sympathetic ideal then an empathetic one. (But you take what you can get.) > 4. it's mostly kids! kids is getting to describe a larger group than it once did but this is true. However in addition to these platforms there are others that aren't as consistent with what the outstanding political extremes include. > it just seems hard for me to on one hand be all for > those > ideas, and then to not understand what is necessary > to make > sure those things stick around > > besides all this, i don't know anything more uncool > than > being completely fucking oblivious to what's > happening in > the rest of the world and not understanding > one's connections to it. Certainly agreed. I am not sure though that this might have to do more with the direction of education. Considering American schools most students can finish a university education and be completely ignorant of every nation not our own. Before the events of previous weeks I'm sure that 80% of Americans couldn't find Afghanistan on a map (now that number is probably 50%) much less have any appreciation for the culture. The same goes for any other country that doesn't border the US and for some even those that do. So how do you expect people to understand what appropriate foreign policy might be? > just some thoughts > > again, please don't take this as a "i think all mods > should > be anarcho-communists!!!!", it's just that it seems > a > natural outcome, and i'm surprised i don't see it > more > often, that's all. > > in regards to middle-class kids throwing rocks at > cops > lately, this issue of globalization isn't something > that > was thought up by a bunch of bored college > kids. People in the global south have been dealing > with > it, fighting it, and living with its consequences > for a > decade. it's easy for the media to label > a subject as serious as this and try to discredit it > as the > games of bored white kids. this has been the > reality of > the majority of the people in the world for > a long time and we're just beginning to understand > it My comments mostly were intended to point out the shallowness of the political movements in America. Rather I do know a little (a little only) about world affairs and I have often wondered what the state of affairs would be in America if we actually had to pay the real expense of our lifestyle rather than the amount now which only works due to the suffering and abuse of people in the third world. I'm mostly disgusted with the methodology these students are using and the ignorance of most of these individuals. If by accident their efforts produced some good results I would be okay with that (i just wonder at what expemse this type of improvement might come.) scott duncan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ==^================================================================ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiMu.aVzSEg Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: [email protected] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^================================================================
