Dennis/Susan
this is going to be a short letter.
First of all, I want to thank both of you for complimenting what
progress I have made with MoviePosterBid during the past few months.
It has been a lot of work and it's always nice to have your work
recognized by your peers.
however....
while I appreciate the comments, I really cannot appreciate the
spirit in which they were made
Yes I have moved the site forward & have had a greater success with
it than JR had, however - without JR's initial work, his sweat, his
understanding of how a site like MPB needed to be designed and his
courage to begin such a site without any help from anyone that I can
think of - I think JR needs to be applauded for his effort. No matter
how it turned out.
But what I really do not appreciate is that you would use me a stick
with which to beat on JR because you do/don't have a gripe with him
on your own and that was very wrong. JR happens to be a friend of
mine, and whether he is right, wrong or indifferent in his comments
to this group - the fact that you have brought me into your argument
is wrong headed, and shows a lack of respect for my autonomy.
It couldn't be more obvious that between JR & Susan in particular
that there is a strong rancor. My position on that.. well it's
between them and there is little I can do to change their feelings to
one another. I may not agree with how JR has handled himself, and I
don't agree on how Susan has handled herself either, but rather than
say either one of them is being ignorant - I prefer to say "act your age"
Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly angry at either of you (Dennis &
Susan) but you both have me shaking my head because I really do not
appreciate being made a weapon to use against JR. If you have a gripe
with someone, I think it is incumbent on you to involve yourself, but
not others and particularly not me.
it's as simple as that
Rich=====================
At 08:21 PM 9/14/2006, susan olson wrote:
Thankyou Rich you are truly a kind and forgiving person,
I didn't mean to be critical or try to put anyone down, I was only
trying to be empathetic.
Everyone handles situations differently and while not condoning the
lack of communication,
I can understand it.
sometimes its all a person can do to muster that last bit of
strength just to survive.
I love what you Have Done with MPB, it is a great Venue now!
Susan
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Richard Halegua Comic Art
To: <mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU>MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Voodoo Woman Returns to Gotham -- film at 11:00 ?
Everyone
I spoke with Frank myself yesterday.. we had a long conversation.
He agreed that it was unacceptable to not be able to have someone
contact customers while he was pretty much bedridden for a few days
and then in the hospital and then unable to work. He is a member of
MoPo and he also told me he read everyone's posts.
He did tell me that he was going to be handling each & every last
poster that was given to him and make sure that everyone was happy.
Of course he realizes that he lost business as a result of his heart
condition - for instance, he was going to linenback a large number of
posters for Morris Everett's auction in NYC in November. But due to
his heart condition & resulting operation he had to ask Morrie to
look for someone else to handle backing for him until he was well again
I do appreciate Claude for helping to cool some of you down, and of
course Susan as well.
I am entirely satisfied that Frank will satisfy his clients and that
he will also continue to offer his services on both MPB & Ebay in the future.
by the way, to all linenbackers. I am getting ready to add a
"services" listing from the News/Community pages at MoviePosterBid
and I want to have as complete a list of linenbackers
what I need:
NAME
WEBSITE
SHORT BIO IF POSSIBLE
SERVICES AVAILABLE (NO COSTS, JUST SERVICE AVAILABLE)
PHONE NUMBER
ADDRESS
of course, if there's something I missed, please give me that data
thanks
Rich==================
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<http://www.filmfan.com>www.filmfan.com
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At 05:02 AM 9/19/2006, Video Den Collection wrote:
JR:
So you won't be posting anymore, then maybe I will keep my
subscription to the MOPO service after all. I was seriously
considering dropping it, enabling you to get one notch closer to
your SIX MEMBER goal of subscribers to MOPO. Having to wade through
your long "winded" (double entendre intended) diatribes has become
more and more tedious. What do you do for a living? Does someone
pay you to sit at a computer all day and seemingly all night filling
the air with your opinions, forcing the rest of MOPO humanity to
breathe in those vacuous fumes. As far as poster collecting is
concerned the only significance I can fathom you have ever achieved
is giving birth to MPB. This you failed to make a success, quit and
sold at auction for a paltry couple of thousand dollars. The irony
there is Rich took it over and in his first major event had nearly
the sales totals that you had accumulated over the previous 12
months. Of course, you were so very proud of that $38,000
thereabouts, that you thought you should shout it out to everyone
within the MOPO universe in marketing emails. "Look at Me! See
what a Success I am!" That was pathetic, as this latest outburst
is. "Oh, Poor Me!" "Look at how I am being treated!" "I am taking
my toys home and am never coming to play again!"
JR: Grow Up!
Dennis G. Michaels "Video Den"
Video Den Collection @ <http://www.rarevideo.com/>www.RareVideo.com
/ www.RarePoster.com / <http://www.raredvd.com/>www.RareDVD.com
PO Box 36 Vestal, New York 13851-0036
(607)786-3107
<http://www.rarehollywood.com/>www.RareHollywood.com
----------
From: MoPo List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JR
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:30 AM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: [MOPO] This does not go unanswered -- long out of
necessity, I'm afraid
To those who care to read it, I'm sorry for the length of this post,
but I need to set the record straight before departing:
Recently, in a 24-hour period, Susan Olson sent 5 separate public
messages to this list in which she violated the long-standing rule
of no personal attacks. In each of those messages she personally
attacked me with foul-mouthed, abusive language and accused me of
things which are outright lies. I held off answering those attacks
because I didn't think it would be a healthy thing for this list to
fight with her on MOPO (and because I would have had to violate the
personal attack rule if I did). Instead, I left it up to Scott
Burns, the moderator of this list, to deal with this blatant
violation of his rules. I thought this would be the appropriate thing to do.
Scott has now made it clear to me that he will not take any action
against Susan for violating his rules so egregiously... over and
over again... in message after message. I do not understand Scott's
decision and am disappointed in it. But since he won't intervene, I
believe I have a right to defend myself and respond to Susan's
blatant lies and will now do so, since Scott has left me no choice
in the matter. Those of you who have no interest in any of this
should skip what follows and read the last paragraph of this
message. This is for the record. Since I am left which no
alternative but to answer in public Susan's very public lies about
me, here goes:
I did not "attack Susan first" as she claims. The facts: A few days
ago Susan sent her very first message to MOPO since rejoining the
group after a 2 1/2 year absence. She left back then in a violent
huff, blasting the entire membership of this list as a bunch of
asshole and singling out Scott as a sniveling little weasel on her
way out the door. So, what does Ms. Olson do in her very first
message upon returning to MOPO? She leaps to criticize those people
who had asked if anyone knew what was happening with Frank Santos --
they were worried about the 53 valuable movie posters they had sent
to him after receiving no word from him for 45 days and after seeing
his eBay account tagged with "No longer a registered member of
eBay". She said to Frank:
"these people wont have a triple bypass or need stints if they don't
get theyre posters tomarrow! and if they take theyre business
elsewhere try to view it as a good thing!"
I thought her criticism of these people - who had a very legitimate
concern and were only asking what was going on with Frank -- was a
strange way to re-enter the MOPO community and I said so. I seems if
Susan she has a right to criticize those people for simply asking
about Frank that I have an equal right to question her for doing so.
Yes? Or is Susan Olson the only one allowed to criticize what other
people say on this list? But I guess the deal is that she can
complain about us, but we can't complain about her -- is that the
new rule on MOPO? If so, I sorry, but I didn't get that memo... so I
replied to her unwarranted criticism of those concerned MOPO members
with this observation:
"For Susan to pop up like this and offer criticism of a dozen
justifiably-concerned people on one hand while ostensibly
"supporting" someone who didn't do the right thing seems like a
funny way to reenter a community to me.
"Susan, I am a bit disappointed that this is the way you choose to
announce your return to MOPO... seems like you're still willing to
fire off an emotional blast without considering ALL the aspects of a
situation, something that you became known for in the past but which
I would have hoped you might have mellowed out about. Look, it's
been years... life is too short -- shorter than it was a few years
ago... so... how about dialing down the purely emotional reactions
and about sheathing the claws? Peace."
Susan claims this was an attack on her. But it was a simple
observation of facts... Or does anyone who knows her going to
honestly stand up on this list and claim that Susan does not
sometimes get very emotional in her posts? What I said above was
certainly no worse... was in fact less harsh and judgmental... than
what she had said about those who had merely asked about the status
of their posters. What I clearly and VERY sincerely said above was
express hope that she would have mellowed out over the past couple
of years... that life is too short for this kind of
emotionally-charged leaping-before-one-is-looking kind of thing...
and suggested in a friendly and constructive way that maybe it would
be a good idea to "dial down the purely emotional reactions and
sheath the claws" while getting back into the flow on MOPO. Finally,
to make it very clear that I was being sincere and friendly, I
finished my comment to her by saying: "Peace".
Peace. That's a word with a specific meaning, I believe. Not
generally open to misinterpretation.
So, it was no personal attack that I wrote and I would like to know
how anyone reading those words -- exactly as written -- could
consider it an "attack". You people (and Susan herself) have read
enough of my writing to know when I'm being sincere and when I'm
being sarcastic. I was clearly being sincere in this case. That's
the tragedy of all this.
But rather that stop and think about the friendly suggestion I had
offered, Susan immediately did the *opposite* and let her emotions
run wild and launched into a vehement attack in reply in her second
message to this list:
"JR what ever you says holds no water for me, You have no
credibility with me sir, Mr defender of Eugene Hughes, Joe Deprenda
and the Physcopath Amanda who you tried to get me moderated for
after she posted my private emails and our private fight to Style-B
list? You are relentlessly negative and flip flop like a fucking
hooked trout, and unfortunately, I have let you troll me. I would
love you to rejoin Style-B, so that I would have the pleasure of
kicking you ass out for the second time!"
Note how she claimed, while viciously attacking and lying about me,
that I had *made* her do it -- that she what she was writing was all
somehow MY FAULT -- that I had somehow "trolled her" and she had not
control over what she was writing -- that mean old JR has
maliciously *tricked* poor helpless Susan Olson into attacking him
(which was the very last thing that she ever, ever wanted to do...
really and truly it was...). Right.
When she wrote that, I realized nothing I could say would do
anything but fan the flames, so rather than get into it, I simply
replied to her:
"Thanks for making my point." (...meaning she had done exactly the
opposite of what I had honestly and constructively suggested might
be a good approach to take while getting her toes wet in MOPO again).
But rather than engage in a fire fight on MOPO, I thought the
appropriate thing to do was let Scott deal with such clear
violation of his rules, so I finished that message with:
"Scott... does this message constitute a clear violation of your
guidelines for no personal attacks on MOPO?"
To which Susan publicly replied with her third message titled
"What's the matter, poor baby!" :
"You started it don't get your panties in a knot and cry for a
moderator, is the moon not in your favour JR"
I believe I have already demonstrated that if anyone started
anything, Susan did with her unwarranted criticism of those who had
merely asked what was happening with Frank Santos. But I did not
respond to her childish cat-call and so she followed up a little bit
later with a fourth public message where she said:
"Personally I am laughing my ass off. this pussy is just incredible!"
But still, I did not respond and engage her in a shouting match
--which is clearly what she wanted. Frustrated at my unwillingness
to play, she then decides to change her tactics and sends a fifth
public message where she pretends to apologize to Scott and
*volunteers* to leave the list for having disrespected his rules. A
few hours later, before Scott could even reply, she flip-flopped on
that and decided to stay after all, due to "public demand". But
check out the content of her so-called apology:
"I apologise Scott for disrespecting your Forum... " OK...she says
she apologizes... but ... in the SAME message just 3 sentences later
she CONTINUES to disrespect Scott's forum by continuing to attack
me! Referring to me as "negative TinfoilCap wearing forces with
hidden personal agendas." She also went on a few sentences later to
say of me: ""He reminds me of the Pink Panthers Kato! too bad its
not as funny as it appears on the screen."
I love the logic of this particular message: Apologize to the list
owner so he doesn't kick you off for violating the rule against
personal attacks a full 4 times in 24 hours -- and then CONTINUE
with the personal attacks in the very same message where you
apologize for engaging in personal attacks! Unbelievable.
But you know what? Scott fell for it. Apparently so did quite a few
others, who rushed to her side, begging her to stay. More on this at
the end of this message.
That's the sad history of this completely one-sided flame war where
the only person throwing fire around was Susan Olson. But in the
process she told several lies about me which I thought were so
laughable that I didn't need to defend against them... until I
realized that there are now a lot of new people on MOPO who will not
know what I *really* said years ago about Joe DePrenda or Eugene
Hughes and the other stuff she mentioned. So, in self-defense I need
to set the record straight on her specific accusations, least her
lies be taken as truth because of my silence. She claimed I was:
"defender of Eugene Hughes, Joe Deprenda and the Physcopath Amanda
who you tried to get me moderated for after she posted my private
emails and our private fight to Style-B list? You are relentlessly
negative and flip flop like a fucking hooked trout"
1) I *never* defended Joe DePrenda's thieving and fraudulent actions
at any time, anywhere. I defy Susan or anyone else to dig up a
message from the MOPO archive or any other archive that shows I did.
Quite the opposite, I condemned him in no uncertain terms.
2) I *never* defended Eugene Hughes' thieving and fraudulent actions
at any time, anywhere. Same challenge as # 1 above -- find a message
of mine where I defended Eugene Hughes for ripping off people.
Again, I condemned him in no uncertain terms. What I did do was
defend someone calling himself "Randy Pillar" when he was kicked off
Style B by Donnie after saying something Susan didn't like. I
thought Donnie's action was uncalled for and said so. That was the
extent of it. Many weeks later it turned out "Randy Pillar" was a
pseudonym Eugene Hughes was hiding behind, but NOBODY knew that at
the time Donnie kicked him off and I protested the action -- not
Donnie, or Susan or me. And all this happened before Eugene did his
big flip-out and ripped off so many people. Oddly, I still maintain
that a person should not be kicked off of a list for saying
something Susan Olson doesn't like -- but apparently I am in the
minority in this belief.
3) The Amanda thing happened on Style B. No point in going into the
gory details, besides explaining that Amanda dragged a private-email
fight between herself and Susan into public on Style B and Susan got
so upset about this that she unwisely carried on the fight in public
and *escalated* it in a really major way, saying some of the most
virulent and hateful things I have ever seen anyone say to another
person on any list. Donnie suspended Amanda for fighting, but not
Susan. But then Susan *suspended herself* temporarily from Style B
when she calmed down and realized what a frightful mess had been
made -- I had nothing to do with that. But is there a theme
emerging here I wonder?
The truth of the matter is that, in a private message to moderator
Donnie Sullivan I wrote to him on Susan's behalf -- and I can quote
this because it is MY OWN private message -- I wrote:
"I completely agree that Susan's outburst was a one-time event and
that she apologized quickly (though not exactly immediately) and
"punished" herself into 10-day suspension. I believe in my 1st the
post on the subject I suggested she should be "paroled early".
I have date-and-time-stamped copies of this and other messages on
the subject on file and can prove that's what I did and what I said
at the time. Since they purge the Style B archives of all
"off-topic" messages every once in a while, I may be the only one
who actually does have file copies of what was *really* said and
done at the time.
Susan knows full well that I did not try to get her kicked off of
Style B. She knows it, but she chooses to remember it differently
and talk about it differently. Now who's TinFoil Cap agenda is showing?
4) I do not believe anyone could demonstrate statistically that I am
"relentlessly negative", although I do adopt a curmudgeonly persona
from time to time, as much for a lark as anything else, which I
believe most people on this list understand. Sure, I'll say
something critical if the situation calls for it. But I believe the
vast bulk of my posts to MOPO over the years have been positive.
5) I do not "flip flop"... not like a "fucking hooked trout" or
anything else. I consider personal integrity to be a valuable
possession -- one of the few meaningful things a person can truly
own for themselves. I have maintained the integrity of my beliefs
and opinions even when it meant getting people irritated with me...
when it meant losing business on MoviePosterBid that I really could
have used... when it meant getting kicked off of Style B for daring
to be a heretic and question the omnipotent wisdom of Donnie
Sullivan or the unsullied beneficence and truth-telling of a certain
self-proclaimed Voodoo Woman. Yes, I *have* changed my mind on
occasion, but when I do it is for a good reason... like when people
who claim to be your friends stab you in the back. I usually change
my mind about them being my friends at that point. I pick up on
little clues like that... But usually I change my mind because I
have come across new information that forces me to change my
opinion, rather than ignore the new information and continue to
cling to my old opinion. When I do this, I acknowledge it and
explain why I have changed my mind. I believe it is permissible for
someone to change their mind occasionally without being labeled a
fucking flip-flopping hooked flounder? Or did I miss that memo as well?
THE LAST PARAGRAPH --
Because I am so disappointed in the way Scott has chosen to NOT
handle this situation... and because there seems to be quite a few
on this list (at least the vocal ones, which is what counts on a
list after all) who seem to think I *did* viciously attack poor
defenseless innocent Susan for no reason and therefore deserved
every single foul-mouthed, abusive thing she said to me... well, in
light of this I'm thinking... what's the point, then? I've just
spent a weekend fretting about this stupid scenario and 4 hours of
my life that I won't get back writing this attempt to document and
examine rationally what really happened -- but I doubt that it will
make any difference. Rationality doesn't seem to be in vogue this
season. So, like, I have to ask myself: Who needs this? I'm not
exactly pulling a Bruce here... for the time being I will keep my
subscription to MOPO... but I will set it not to receive emails for
now. I'll check in at the archives from time to time to see if any
interesting in on-topic conversation is going on. But I've no
interest in the petty personal psycho-babble jive type of
discussions that now seem to be about to infect MOPO... spreading
over from Style B and NS4GE like some kind of touch-feely virus...
fostering a prevailing attitude of "I'm OK... you're OK (so long as
you agree with me)". Nah. Just not my scene. But it seems to be what
Scott wants to encourage and it's his list, so I'll catch y'all on
the flip side.
-- JR
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