Hey Mike:
** On autographs, I say, you either have to be present when something is
signed by a celebrity -- of if he or she is decesaed -- be extremely
familiar with historical changes in pen and pencil strokes. I use official
public documents for comparison purposes, to ensure the chances of getting
burned by forged signatures are kept low.
-----------
** I own quite a number of them and those of which I consider myself pretty
good-to-great at are: Bogart, Bette Davis, James Stewart and Maureen
O'Hara. Janet Leigh signed my LB Psycho poster when she visited San Diego
several years ago. I have a picture of her signing it and she wrote,
"David, Psychotically Yours, Janet Leigh."
** I have signatures on cards with dates on them from the estate of Harry
Warnecke, the famous NYC color and wire photographer who had most of his
celebrity subjects sign them after taking their "best angles." I own checks
and letters signed by Disney, Audrey Hepburn, Clark Gable, Rita Hayworth,
Julie Andrews, Anne Bancroft and yup, even TV babe Elizabeth Montgomery,
names most kids today have no clue, except maybe Disney and Gable. The only
other movie paper I have that's signed (vs. pictures or autographs on cards
I own), is a cast lobby card signed by Maureen O'Hara from "Miracle on 34th
Street."
-----------
** The thing about "vintage" autographs that kills me is that people buy
them not realizing they're buying signatures penned by publicists and fan
clubs leaders. Bette Davis is a good example. You'll see signatures of her
fetch $$$ if sellers claim they're from the 30s or 40s. The problem is,
Bette Davis' signature does NOT SLANT. It's straight up and down with big
loops. Yet every "vintage' signature from her Dark Victory or Jezebel
period is done in fountain ink and is slanted to the right.
** I think an authenticated signature on any paper, esp. movie paper, is
valuable. The operative word is "authenticated," or at least, something you
consider yourself expert. A signature on a blank card is one thing, a
signature on a check for dog food is another -- and a signature on a piece
of memorabilia is the best of all.
-----------
** The worst examples of rampant daily forgeries at eBay involve Beatles
signatures. Some were signed by roadies Neil Aspinall or Mal Evans or by
fan clubs or just rank amateur con-artists. This is why the only Fab Four
signatures that matter these days MUST be authenticated by a handful of
people who have devoted their lives studying Beatle forgeries and legal
documents. The best are Perry Cox and Frank Caiazzo. I've seen some people
"guess" w/o these authenticators and sometimes they get lucky. They buy and
then submit to an auction house -- who in turns submits them to one of these
guys -- and if it's bogus, they lose -- but can afford to try again. If
it's real, they sell or change their minds and keep their prize finds.
** The best authenticators no longer accept submissions from collectors.
You now have to go through It's Only Rock 'N Roll, Heritage, Christie's,
Sotheby's or Bonhams to ensure authenticity and a money-back guarantee --
because these experts are now on paid retainers. And the volume they
inspect is enormous. So much of what they see is junk.
-----------
** BTW, Michael -- your recent challenge to people who would be "brave
enough" to come forward to declare what posters they "overpaid" for --
failed miserably. I think people took it as a way for you to brag how
cheaply you have gotten your prizes.
** The thing that is kind of funny is that even though you are a collector
-- you sell enough stuff from week to week to be more than just that. I
consider you a part-time dealer only in the sense it may not be your
full-time job. But to me, a part time dealer is different than a part time
collector-seller like myself, who, if I'm lucky, will post no more than 3
titles a year. You on the other hand, have want lists you rotate, have a
declared abhorrence to restoration, gives one an impression you certainly
weren't born yesterday, but also the impression that you like things always
discounted. This may not be true, but it's just an impression I get.
** Yet you sell stuff every week, an average of 10-20 titles, maybe more.
How can you consider yourself a collector in the same vein as the rest of us
who buy retail more often than not? Many dealers are collectors, even
full-time dealers. But I get the impression you think some posters are
over-priced by sellers, in that they are selling to collectors retail but
since you are a seller yourself, you are unlikely to accept it as a
collector.
-----------
** I think back to that All About Eve insert I paid Bruce more than $700
that was mildly restored. You wouldn't take it. You essentially let me
have it. Then came the other insert, same title, at eBay that you thought
in grossly ratty condition that Channing and Kirby paid about the same price
as an investment. They thought it was a steal. Especially after it's
restored. But you abhor restoration. I think it will be worth way more
than $700 to people for which presentation is everything.
** I almost wonder, and this is not a criticism, if about $800 is your
maximum anyway for this title in this format, assuming you come across a
completely unrestored All About Eve insert? This would still be grossly low
because I think the Eve insert is the best paper from this title on earth,
next to the color lobby scene card w/Marilyn that also appears (albeit in
blue duotone black/white) at the bottom of the the Eve insert. I also own
the one-sheet and people don't consider it great, but it still works for me
cuz Marilyn is in the lower left corner.
** Now since the "All About Eve" insert remains on your want list, I don't
expect you'll ever name the price you will pay until AFTER you've acquired
it. And even if it's clean, unbacked, untouched, unstained, etc., I get the
feeling you wouldn't pay more than $1,300 for it, despite the fact that this
is one of the greatest movies ever made, better known to mainstream film
buffs than Shadow of a Doubt. And the reason I suspect this is because you
know the dynamics of buying and selling because you likely sell more things
than you buy. You do more of it than most collectors like me. And you
won't be "taken to the cleaners."
-----------
So I circle back by posing this -- what was your original point last week
when you asked (quote):
"what is the most overpriced poster you bought that you will never get your
money out of ??? who's brave enough to answer this one ?????"
** You didn't get one public answer except mine that I can remember. I will
tell you the 5 posters people thought I "over paid." 1) A "To Have and Have
Not" OS from the Royal Theater collection, LB, for which I paid $2500. 2)
"It's A Wonderful Life" -- softly folded, no tears, no paper loss OS -- back
in the mid-1990s -- for $3500. (This has since surpassed in value, but I
was criticized by fellow collectors for years). 3) "On the Waterfront,"
which I paid $1800. Not a hard poster to find, can probably get it for 70%
less. 4) Style D "Shadow of a Doubt," beautifully LB, for $3,000 from
former dealer Herb Ross. This was about 7 years ago. 5) A window card to
"Some Like It Hot" for $800. People laugh at that.
** But I love all five films and I didn't care what they cost then, nor do I
care what they cost now. Sure, if I can get a deal, I'll go for it. But if
I want something badly, if I have the money, I'll get what I think it's
worth to ME. Most times I don't have the money, and I'll evaluate how badly
I want something and if it's out-of-reach, it stays that way, hampered by
dollars. This is how I regard Beatles' signatures. A good set on a promo
card (vs. a blank card) costs more than $12K. They'll likely never come
down in price, but other things have gotten in the way. Unless I plan to
croak soon and really need money badly, forcing myself to unload things at
auction, I think a lot of us collectors who aren't dealing all the time will
take what we can get, and dealers have a perfect right to take advantage
because if I'm happy and the dealer is happy he/she can still mark it up,
why should I care? I think most collectors who aren't sellers are OK if
they at least break even on what they paid because they're not operating a
business nor think of mark-ups in the same way as dealers who need to put
bread on their tables.
-----------
** Finally -- I got my "Waterfront" OS signed by Karl Malden in person when
he was promoting his book. So there, I've covered the autographs on posters
issue and the "over priced" issue in one long-ass response. The poster is
likely STILL not worth $1800 (or even $500), but I don't care. I knew a guy
who once said because he was a full-time seller, he always had to get the
better of any deal, that is, always at a discount. Fine, I'm OK with that.
But because I've long known he wants something for HIMSELF, well, then, if
he wants it, he's gotta trade or he MUST pay what I want, even if "only
breaking even for me" is still "over-priced" for him. I hope this makes
sense.
-koose. (grin).
Oops -- one poster I bought years ago which I adore is the art deco window
card to Chaplin's "City Lights." I got it from Todd F. for what I think was
$3500. I didn't consult any price guide. I just loved the art. I'd like
to think it's still a steal. But if isn't, I don't care. I like the art on
the WC to this title way more than what I see on other formats.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Michael B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: AUTOGRAPHS ON POSTERS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 01:09:39 EDT
do autographs on posters make them more valuable? i believe that that
autographs have the opposite effect.
i have not bid on posters with autographs that I otherwise would have bid.
presently on ebay, there is a gorgous autographed poster, although i want it
in the insert size.... LINK:
_http://cgi.ebay.com/PORTRAIT-OF-JENNIE-ORIG-49-MOVIE-POSTER-SIGNED-BY-BOTH_W0
QQitemZ250033302467QQihZ015QQcategoryZ2321QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem_
(http://cgi.ebay.com/PORTRAIT-OF-JENNIE-ORIG-49-MOVIE-POSTER-SIGNED-BY-BOTH_W0QQitemZ2500333
02467QQihZ015QQcategoryZ2321QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
a favorite film of mine is SHADOW OF A DOUBT. i own the one sheet, and
purchased the insert from bruce 3 weeks ago. Yet, the full set on lobby
cards from this firm keeps appearing, and reappearing, and reappearing for
$2,000 with autographs. never sells.....
i always see a bogart signed one sheet of THE DESPERATE HOURS for about
900.00. it is only a 100.00 poster!!!! it never sells.
i have a neighbor who used to collect sports autographs. he stopped. too
many fakes burnt him.
YOU THOUGHTS ON AUTOGRAPHS ?????
michael
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