David,

OK, looked at from that perspective what you said makes a kind of sense. Except I have a hard time seeing it that way. A professionally-restored poster that "appears to be in C9 condition" actually becomes a C9 to virtually everyone as a practical matter. We all know that a really good restorer can make their work virtually invisible. So how are most buyers going to know the poster is "really a C7 that only looks like a C9"?

It just doesn't happen that way in real life most of the time. Most of the time the buyer has no way of knowing how much restoration was done. Buyers will look at an unrestored C7 poster with all its flaws and see something worth $X dollars to them. If they then look at a well-restored poster of same title and they will not see a "C-7 restored" -- they will to see a "C-9 on linen". So, naturally the perceived C-9 will go for a higher price, but such a comparison is hardly apples to apples as you originally stated.

-- JR

David Lieberman wrote:
jr
No, you are wrong. I think you may have misunderstood my post. First of all.....a c7 poster is still a c7 poster even if it has been fully restored and now appears to be a c9-c10 poster. That is what I was comparing.....a c7 unrestored poster to a c7 restored poster that appears to be in c9-c10 condition Its pretty obvious....but I'll say it anyway....a c7 unrestored poster is almost always VERY difficult to sell. Many times the only way to sell a poster in that condition is to get it restored (if it is worth it.....which is really a whole other discussion). Again.....this is the reason Heritage and other auction houses get a lot of posters restored before auctioning them........because they will sell for more.

*David Lieberman

*CineMasterpieces.com <http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/> | 15721 N. Greenway Hayden Loop, Suite 105 -- Scottsdale, Az 85260 Vintage Original Movie Posters | 602 309 0500 | Office/Gallery Open By Appt. Only._

Our Facebook Page <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CineMasterpieces/7735495839?v=wall>

In a message dated 7/18/2010 3:14:00 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jrl...@mediabearonline.com writes:

    David,

    Your example logic is faulty: An unrestored poster in C7 condition
    is essentially the same as the restored poster in C7 condition. If
    a C7 were "fully restored on linen" by a pro it would be
    considered at least a C9 or C10 (although some claim a poster that
    has been restored can never be called a C10 no matter how good it
    looks after the restoration).

    So, a C7 unrestored and a restored poster which the same appraiser
    says is in C7 condition are essentially in the same condition. In
    that case, I'm sure the unrestored poster would be preferred by
    the vast majority of collectors and probably command at least a
    bit more than the restored poster in C7 condition.

    -- JR

    David Lieberman wrote:
    Despite what some die hard long time collectors think....(the
    ones who don't mind looking at an imperfect poster)....
If you compare apples to apples......for example a C7 fine poster
    unrestored vs a C7 fine poster expertly restored/linen
    backed......the majority of the time.....posters that have been
    restored with all their defects fixed sell for more than posters
    that have not had their defects fixed. Often times A LOT more.
    This is of course assuming that the restoration is good and
    doesn't look like it was done by a 2 year old.
Most people who buy from us want their posters to look as good as
    they can. They usually want any restoration to be invisible (to
    the naked eye) but at the same time they want to know what was
    done to it.
I know Heritage sends out dozens and dozens of posters for
    restoration prior to every auction. They do it for a reason.
    Restored posters generally bring in more money.


    *David Lieberman

    *CineMasterpieces.com <http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/> | 15721
    N. Greenway Hayden Loop, Suite 105 -- Scottsdale, Az 85260
    Vintage Original Movie Posters | 602 309 0500 | Office/Gallery
    Open By Appt. Only._

    Our Facebook Page
    <http://www.facebook.com/pages/CineMasterpieces/7735495839?v=wall>

In a message dated 7/17/2010 12:10:59 P.M. US Mountain Standard
    Time, pickmeis...@cox.net writes:

        Agreed. Give me a window card with the original theater
        imprint, and the
        poster goes from a nice bit of imagery to an iconic piece of
        American
        history. Stuff written on the back of posters...as long as it
        doesn't
        bleed through...often adds a bit of being in the that moment
        in time to
        the piece.
        Greg Douglass
        Toochis Morin wrote:
        > I love posters that have the worn look. If I wanted them to
        look
> perfectly new, I'd buy repros. >
        > Many of mine are framed with the fold lines, etc.  I
        usually linenback
        > and restore if the poster is in dire need to restoration.
        >
        > Toochis
        >
        >
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > *From:* Bruce Hershenson <brucehershen...@gmail.com>
        > *To:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
        > *Sent:* Sat, July 17, 2010 9:11:34 AM
        > *Subject:* Re: [MOPO] The Scandal-plus cut, pressed washed,
        starched &
        > dried....
        >
        > I actually had one of my employees suggest to me that we
        should "punch
        > up" the images of items we sell, and I told him that we
        NEVER do that
        > (he is new, or he would have already known that). Of
        course, there is
        > no way to know if others feel the same way (at least until
        you get
        > your package and compare the item you get to the image you
        saw).
        >
        > Bruce
        >
        > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Richard Evans
        > <evan...@blueyonder.co.uk
        <mailto:evan...@blueyonder.co.uk>> wrote:
        >
        >     I thought the This Gun for Hire went beyond strong
        colours and
        >     looked unflatteringly garish.
        >     Presumably not a result of restoration judging by the
        listing,
        >     but was it really actually that vibrant, or did the colour
        >     reproduction exacerbate it online?
        >
        >     On 17 Jul 2010, at 16:44, Bruce Hershenson wrote:
        >
        >>     I personally agree with this. I didn't like the "make
        it look
        >>     perfect" school of restoration even *BEFORE* the
        Haggard scandal
        >>     broke.
        >>
        >>     First, because the restorers were in effect hiding their
        >>     restoration, making it impossible to see exactly what
        was done
        >>     (and a long time pro like myself could spot some
        restoration that
        >>     most amateurs would never see, creating a "fear of
        restoration"
        >>     among many collectors).
        >>
        >>     Second, because many of these items were *SO *restored
        that they
        >>     looked almost like "recreations". I *LIKE *the items in my
        >>     collection to show at least *SOME *signs of age,
        unless they are
        >>     in truly mint unrestored condition, because that is
        part of the
        >>     joy of owning an original, knowing that it survived
        all these
        >>     years. If you want a perfect looking item, why not
        just get a
        >>     reproduction? But don't take your "very good"
        condition and have
        >>     someone make them look like new. If you *MUST
        *restore, why not
        >>     simply do minimal restoration to the areas that most
        need it?
        >>
        >>     Bruce
        >>
        >>     On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 9:58 AM,
        >>     glenndamato <glenndam...@earthlink.net
        >>     <mailto:glenndam...@earthlink.net>> wrote:
        >>
        >>         Regarding the Heritage auction: I do believe the fakes
        >>         scandal hurt the hobby, plus many of the restored
        posters
        >>         look like they were cut, bleached, washed,
        starched & dried.
        >>         I'll take old Igor back anyday.......
        >>
        >>                 Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site
        >>         at www.filmfan.com <http://www.filmfan.com>
>> >> ___________________________________________________________________
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