Hi J-A Yes, if determinism is carried to it's logical conclusion, the original idea is all that remains. Perhaps there is some mechanism through which the determined and the free interconvert. We can call that Freetermimation or "F" for short. Something considered determined such as the ion flux which creates a nerve impulse in our brain (or some complex domino representation of such group of nerve firing) and it's subsequent conversion to Free Will. Once the Will is exercised, it's consequences would then revert to a determined path.
Alternatively, what seems popular these days, is that the free and not free commingle in an unpredictable way. This commingling could be termed Deterfree action or "DA" Now DA cannot be free or determined since it acts on both and lives outside those realms. This would then create the opportunity for freely sought measurement of DA through determined means. Now this measuring process would have to lie outside Will, Determined, and DA in order to be accurate. Nobody could look at the results since that would create a circular expansion of the event. So, we are left with Schrodinger's cat. We cold also bring in quantum physics and claim that what we consider a determination of measurement is entirely brought about through the act of Freely making that measurement. In this case we are applying free will to the determined, thus making the determined free, or at least an extension of our free will. Now, both free will require a cause effect type of analysis. If the effect can be predicted we consider it a determined event. If it is not predictable, we can call it free. Unfortunately, to unequivocally say something is determined we need to continue to run the experiment. Typically I hold my fork in the same way, but once in a long time I hold it like some kind of barbarian, with my fist and plunge at the steak, and Bingo! free will suddenly appears. To be certain that something does not have free will we must be sure we have tested every possible equation which would confirm determinism. Or, we could make it simple and say that only humans have free will and that a cheetah does not choose which springbok to eat. Or we can say that everything with a brain has free will, except we would have to specify the size of the brain since a nematode couldn't possibly have free will. Or we could say that every thing alive has free will. Or we could state that everything has free will, and that the entire universe is ethical. So many choices, somebody tell me which one to pick! Mark On Oct 11, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Jan-Anders Andersson <[email protected]> wrote: > Good morning ladies and gentlemen. > >> Ham: > >> It's hard to see how this can be an "ethical" activity, let alone one >> involving Free Will. Apparently belief in an ethical (moral?) universe >> requires one to accept the ancient animistic notion that quantum particles >> exercise the same freedom that man does. As a scientist, you realize of >> course that if hydrogen atoms had "decided" not to pair up with oxygen >> atoms, there would have been no water to support life on this planet. >> Likewise, had small bodies in space not been attracted to bodies of larger >> mass, planetary orbits such as our solar system would have been impossible. >> But, I suppose the laws of nature are assumed to be "patterns" of Quality >> which "freely" go with the flow. > > Just to be able to a better and deeper understanding of the four levels. > > Is it possible to imagine an evolution on ANOTHER planet? > > Would that evolution follow the inorganic-organic-social-intellectual path? > What is then the universal determining factor? > Or, would it be possible for that evolution to follow any other determining > factor, separate from what have happened on our planet. > Is a planetary evolution free or determined? Is the universal determining > factor free, determined or to some extent determined and to another extent > free? > > At least something to think about on the way to, or from, the bar. > > Jan-Anders > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
