Marco, Rog, All
3WD (Previously)
> Pirsig- "Quality is ..direct experience" and "..."a thing that has
> no value (quality) does not exist. The thing has not created
> the value.The value has created the thing."
> 3WD-So for a "thing" to exist it must have "direct experience" which implies > that
> some type of "internal" existence is present in all "things."
You asked,
Marco
> Firstly I would like to know if what you mean by "thing" is a concept or
> (as I think) something that is in some way independent by [of?] the concept
> (even if it is known only by means of concepts).
3WD
First all 'things', in the first two sentences previously sent, were
Pirsig's 'things' from greatly truncated Lila quotes. The third sentence
was my 'things' conclusion based on these, and reading other sources
which seem to make conclusions similar to Pirsig. I think we can safely
say that what Pirsig means is ALL, EVERY, ANY thing. Depending on your
point of view it can be USEFUL to envision a 'thing' as internal,
external, concept, independent of concept, conjoined with concept,
static, dynamic, or all of these and more.
So I think you've already answered your own question.
> View points!!!
But as Rog and Platt point out in the extension of this thread both the
mystic and the pragmatist would extend cautions when extrapolating those
"view points".
> WARNING!! THE MOQ DEALS ONLY WITH CONCEPTUAL MAPS OF > REALITY, NOT WITH REALITY
>ITSELF.
> The only person who doesn't pollute the mystic reality of the world with fixed >
>metaphysical meanings is a person who hasn't yet been born—and to whose
> birth no thought has been given. (Lila, Chap. 5)
Marco
> Isn't it like to say that every "thing" has a stable patterned internal
> existence, and that it is at the same time interacting with the flow
> (its direct experience) ?
I like the metaphor of an eddy or whirlpool in a stream that the chaos
theorists often use. Now from the perspective of a water molecule or a
bit of leaf spinning in that whirlpool I can't say if the experience in
like the joy of a child on a merry-go-round or being trapped in a Rome
traffic circle on a hot smoggy day.
3WD
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