Hello dear MD A short visit to deliver a message. "Mlerner" said: > I'm one of those who think Pirsig had it right in ZMM in that true > quality is the unity of the classic and the romantic. I have bee > interested in knowing whether this idea has been expressed in > paintings or other art. > My latest thought is that conflict between the classic and romantic > quality is expressed in the art of Edward Hopper. > Comments? Edward Hopper. Good to see that someone knows him. Not that I have regarded his work in the said context before, but now that you mention it the romantic/classic split may well apply. Being an artist/painter I was greatly impressed/influenced by Hopper back in the sixties/seventies - still am in a way. Like my encounter with Pirsig when his ZMM struck me as my own vague ideas eloquently expressed, Hopper's pictures conveyed the same feeling. His weren't mere renderings of land, sea, or city-scapes, but something much more. The scenes of an empty street with a torn newspaper; a gas station with a lone attendant, or a bar at night with a man and a woman, they moved me beyond description: These were my sentiments painted! Conflict between romantic and classic perhaps, but the conflict redeemed I think. I often compared Hopper to Van Gogh and still wonder if not Hopper was influenced by the latter. Compare VG's "Night Cafe" (AKA "Starry Night") with various Hoppers. However, if you by saying that Pirsig "had it right in ZMM..." mean that the classic/romantic is the metaphysical split rather than the dynamic/static one, he explicitly says that it was a false start. So much for Hopper, but when connected I can't but comment on the current "atomic awareness" thread. I think most people get it wrong because the Quality idea isn't properly recognized. The somish approach is the one of an aware subject peering out on the objective world from its lofty perch, and if this is re-introduced WITHOUT RESERVATIONS into the MOQ it wrecks it. The subject/object division (and all its tenets) is rejected and that must have some profound effect on the aware/unaware pair because it is one of the countless offshoots of the s/o root. And the reason that the MOQ is so terribly hard to grasp is that a metaphysics - currently the SOM - is like the fungus world, it surfaces in single mushrooms, but the root permeates the whole underground. It's no great feat to disprove single subject-object statements, but no sooner have we kicked a frail mushroom to dust (and spread millions of spores) before a new one sprouts. From Bishop Berkeley to Struan Hellier it's been the favourite pastime to show that there is no SOM, yet it pops up in the next sentence. No, the s/o can't be eradicated, but must find a place inside the STATIC sequence of the MOQ. Well, then what about awareness. When we wake up in the morning don't we become aware? It is a fact that all creatures sleep and must necessarily wake up to a reality different from sleep, but I believe that most of you will deny them awareness and say that it simply means that they wake up to their respective biological realities ...and that's right, only that it goes for humans too. We wake up to no God's view, but to human bio-reality ....first sensing the bodily needs :-) and then weave out and in of the various static levels. No, there is no awareness in the somish meaning, not on the inorganic nor on any other level, but there is VALUATION and the value of (the difference between) what's subjective and what's objective is the highest static level of the MOQ (Intellect) and one that only human beings have attained (by way of the social level). This is the only approach that can save the MOQ in my well-known humble opinion. In this view the SOM loses it's M and becomes a mere static level of the MOQ, and as said about a metaphysics being an all- pervading fungus, the MOQ takes over this role. It already have for me, I am unable to return to the subject-object world however much I try. I very much sympathize with Marco's Q-prefix effort, I was a great user of that method once, but am comfortable with the ordinary terms because, as said the Q-fungus now pervades my ground and the s/o terminology is simply seen as "Intellect". I am also greatly impressed by the quality of the exchange and hope I don't lower the standard by repeating my credo. Best regards. Bo PS. Marc Brookhuis wrote: (in his "oorspronkelijk bericht") > I’ve been away for a couple of months, so I missed most of the > discussions on moq, but was able to read Lila’s Child on my journey. > Has Lila’s Child been discussed on moq? I hope I don't spoil Dan Glover's effort by revealing that it is soon to be published as a printed book - perhaps with a commentary-like preface by Pirsig. A guaranteed bestseller!! MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html