I'd tend to agree, mindfullness or moment to moment awareness is not how I understand Enlightenment to be in its entirety, merely an aspect. Regarding previous comments about compassion I'll quote RMP's Lila " Because Quality is morality. Make no mistake about it. They're identical. And if quality is the primary reality of the world then that means morality is also the primary reality of the world. The world is primarily a moral order. ....." One way to look at this might be that those who've had a direct experience of quality are overwhelmed and a REAL morality is a natural result of it.Upon communicating this experience, and after a period of time the original experience is semi-forgotten and homage is payed to a set of norms and values that make no sense in a dynamic landscape. Bruce Lee had a better analogy that he probably poached of the "finger pointing to the moon", it is the moon that is Quality in his example, the finger being a static simple map to get there. PS,Zen, I like the nine seven's, -----Original Message----- From: Marc Brookhuis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 May 2001 19:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: MD RE: What Its Like to be Enlightened After long-time lurking, just a quick response. Maybe there's a big difference between being aware, really high into the moment like skiing or motorcycling. (which in my opinion is also a Zen.thing. "When you do something, do it well') and being enlightend. Enlightenment to me means behaviour which is ego-free. In all aspects. Like holden your anger for a few seconds or even longer when you are really pissed. At least that's what my Zenteaching tells me. I also did some meditatition training in Thailand in march this year. One of the main characteristics of these programs is they don't really allow you to step away from the hard schedule, by having some time to fill in for yourself. That's the main thing. In doing boring, long exercises like meditation you get a closer look at yourself and your motives. Which again gives you the basics for being enlightend. Marc -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Namens Gary Charpentier Verzonden: dinsdag 8 mei 2001 16:35 Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Onderwerp: MD RE: What Its Like to be Enlightened Sorry Daniel, but I strongly disagree. Way too much ego going on here. I have experienced this "oneness" you talk about while roadracing motorcycles, but the activity itself does nobody any real good, and uses up vast amounts of my personal resources in the process. I love the "rush" I get while turning a good lap or executing a clean pass, but it is exactly like a drug in that, when it's over, all I can think about is the next race (...the next "high"). I certainly wouldn't call that Enlightenment. Singular activities always carry analogues for Life, simply because Life itself is made up of all these singular activities. Golfers (...and I am one.)are known for constantly analogizing, ad nauseum, the trials and tribulations of chasing a ball around a large field in order to hit it with a stick; to all of the risk/reward situations in Life. But, what I think you are saying is that it is possible to become an expert at Life. This is the enlightenment of which you speak. In our Western culture, becoming such an expert would mean being wealthy, because money buys the freedom to pursue happiness. But, when all this effort is focused inward, you are ultimately left in a world of one, which has got to be a very lonely place. When your efforts are focused outward instead, you find yourself one with the world, in all it's imperfect glory, but the loneliness, guilt, desire and greed are gone. This is a very peaceful place, and it seems to be the ultimate goal of most spiritual pursuits. Now, maybe I've misunderstood you. It would help when referencing your own writings if you provided a link to them. I will gladly read your essay. I am not judging here, but I am reacting to something I see as dangerously self-centered. My language is frank and direct, and if it offends you, I apologize. Peace, =GC= > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel Colonnese > Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 8:18 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: MD: What Its Like to be Enlightened > > > > > Being enlightened is kind of like going downhill skiing. > It's fun, if > you are an expert downhill skier that is. When you are really good at > downhill skiing, it's not the least bit scary. You have confidence. You > don't hesitate. Without thinking about it, you constantly ask > yourself--when's a good time to turn? Now. Now's a good time to > turn. And > you turn. No hesitation. If skiing is life, then turning (or > carving) is > making changes in your life. You have to pay attention when your > going down > the slope, you have to realize that no one is in control except you. You > have to constantly do stuff or you'll end up with a mouth full of ice. > > Enlightenment isn't an achievement. You can't simply hang > it on your > wall next to your college diploma. Enlightenment is a skill, > like downhill > skiing is a skill. Skiing is the skill of sliding around, wearing some > plastic in the snow. Enlightenment is the skill of living life with an > optimistic outlook, daily happiness, and peace of mind. Some > docile folk go > up and down the bunny slope all day and never look beyond the first hill > they see. Other people undertake increasing challenges, practice, and > improve their skills. Some lunatics just throw themselves off > the tallest > hill they can find. > When you're skiing (enlightened) you see the dynamic quality of > life. You > see the world rushing by you, and you're part of it. Your not > just watching > someone else ski or driving up the mountain in your car-you are in the > scene. You feel like every second counts. You watch people fall > down and > realize that falling is a real possibility. You too could wipe > out if you > weren't paying close attention. After you've been enlightened, I mean > skiing for a while it becomes kind of routine. You are humble, > because you > have fallen down enough to honestly appraise the extent and > limits of your > skills. You don't look down upon beginning or intermediate > skiers because > you had to learn too. In fact, you feel a certain kinship with > everyone on > the slope. > > After you've been skiing for a while, you can begin to put > your success > and failures in perspective. When an expert skier falls, he > usually falls > hard. And when you're going over difficult terrain, you realize how the > subtle balance of your form, the minute movements, and your attitude all > must stay in perfect harmony. You wake up happy every day > looking forward > to finding that balance. Your blood flows quickly, your > adrenaline is on, > everything is brighter and somehow more real. And you feel as > though you've > earned it. > > When's a good time to turn? Now's a good time to turn. > When's a good > time to turn? Now. Now's a good time to turn. You'll find a > rhythm, your > pace. Life or skiing, when done right, has a kind of musical > quality. When > you are an expert skier, you can go down the same hill again and > again, and > no two runs are the same. You recognize that every moment of > your life is > unique-that it will never be quite like this again. And the > subtleties of > the terrain and the precision of your skills have a kind of harmony. You > make the scene more beautiful, provide a model for others. Now being > enlightened is a lot more fun than downhill skiing, but both are worthy > pursuits. The point is to find something and get good at it. Find > something that interests you and give it your all. I suggest life. > > For information on enlightened please read my essay, "How to Become > Enlightened." > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org > Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ > MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ MD Queries - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
