Re: MD Religion/God ~ MoQ/DQ

[Wim Nusselder]

Dear John,   You write 3/7 16:18 +1000: "the very nature of quality must differ according to my individual history and the developmental stages through which I have passed."   I agree. The DQ "jump to the moon" starts from a platform of already existing static patterns of value. DQ is experienced as the incremental change in (breaking up a bit of, adding a bit to) this platform. The content of this incremental change differs depending on where and in which platform it occurs.   I may well not have seemed to respond to your "existential" question about how to discriminate the saviours from the degenerates and the paths that might "save" you from the degenerate ones. I didn't feel the "existential" quality of your question until now. The way you phrased the question 27/6 5:11 +1000 the appropriate answer just seemed to be: try them all and discard what you don't experience as good. I guessed of course that you referred to your involvement in Diamond Essence which you described 18/6 13:21 +1000 as "a group where almost nothing can be demonstrated in advance of undertaking the laborious perhaps decades long apprenticeship to 'spiritual' development.". I chose to ignore that however, respecting your choice and not wanting to voice my doubts. Now that you reformulate your question as "how do I discern a path, an educational process, in which I must invest much time and effort in order to ascertain the actual quality to be discovered thereby, in advance of experiencing that quality?" I can't ignore it anymore: I doubt the wisdom of investing time and effort in trying to experience Dynamic Quality. (See also Dan's 28/6 1:13 -0500 post to me and my 4/7 13:47 +0200 post to him.) Investing time and effort in trying to discover already existing static quality is alright of course, but don't expect Dynamic Quality of it and don't invest more time and effort than is intrinsically rewarding, even if only because it satisfies a drive to discipline (part of) your self (that you would rather identify less with). I would thoroughly distrust anyone who tells me that I have to follow his path to DQ, that the part of the path that I still have to follow after having backtracked to his point of departure is very long and that meanwhile I have to regard him as better, more excellent, then me. That's just a static social pattern of value and no more. A really enlightened teacher (who therefore refuses to be deified, regarded as guru etc.) tells me to start from where I am and follow my own path and suggests me from own experience that DQ is there for the taking ... if only I let go of the "I" that does the taking.   I am curious to know more about what happens in this Diamond Essence workshop of yours. Maybe it disproves my distrust.   I found your new essay (Understanding Quality) on the Forum and also an earlier one (Quality with a Human Face) which I must have overlooked before. I will read and comment on them. I already read the one before that (Creating an Organismic Metaphysics of Quality). From my point of view it didn't improve much on Pirsig's MoQ and even dropped some elements that I found of value however.   With friendly greetings,   Wim Nusselder