Maggie, Johannes, David and MOQ Focus
Nice to see you again Maggie, wish I would learn the "Art of
Lurking" as I have a tendency to either post each day or not at all.
All right, when we have agreed upon all aspects of Pirsig's ideas
we'll have a break. Let me return to your message lower down.
Johannes made an honourable go at the "next level", but to me it
looks like he "went past the brook for water" as we say and looks
for a too exotic solution. He uses the Quantum Physics
uncertainty principle as an example that - if I understand him
correctly - the human psychic "wave-length" is so close to what is
going to be measured (a possible new value level) that it is
useless. "The Psychological Uncertainty Principle" which
according to Johannes
> ..... is very near to pirsigs critisim of
> the SOM: Here are you and there is the motorcycle,
> separated from you in time and space for eternity.
No! This is not SOM, we are now inside the Quality universe, and
the psychic/physical division along with all all other mind/matterish
dualisms are gone. What is carrying out the fifth level, Johannes
asks?
We humans "carry out" all levels and know what existence at all
levels "are like", so why not another step of the Q ladder? As
material entities we share the Inorganic value with the whole
universe. As living organisms we have the Biological experience in
common with all creatures, and as Social members we know
what it means. And finally, when rising above this and look
objectively upon things we experience reality from the Intellect.
But SOM haunts us as (forgive me) Johannes "psychic" venture
shows. When - for instance - I say that we share Inorganic value
with the rest of the universe an image of "mind" at the matter level
pops up, as it does when speaking about Biological value
common to all creatures. But all this I have been through and
won't repeat it here. The the gist of it all is that the mind/matter
division don't apply in the Q context, so it requires no "supermind"
to experience a movement beyond Intellect.
The supermind idea for a possible fifth level comes particularly to
the fore in David B's message, and I can't understand why dear
DMB writing with such supernatural Q-insight as he does in his
"Substance ..." piece can deliver such X-files stuff as "global
awareness" etc. :-). But David possibly finds the very idea so
ridiculous that he refuses to take it seriously, I give him the benefit
of doubt.
Maggie:
> IF "rationality" is the highest (most prevalent) development of the
> intellectual level, then any new level is an escape from rationality.
In a sense yes.
> I've been looking into such deliberate escapes from rationality as new
> leadership and thinking practices. The first, and most definitive is the
> acceptance of the value of "brainstorming" as an accepted way to leap past
> the constraints of rational decision-making.
> This coincides with a shift in decision-making and leadership style that has
> happened within the last half of this century, a shift from leadership by an
> individual (and the structure of loyalty that supports it), to leadership by
> groups (perhaps people accepting leadership of an idea, not a person).
> This seems to coincide with a return/search for spirituality during the same
> period, of which ZMM was a major player/sign.
Here you point to a Q-trend. Intellect as the lone individual brain is
replaced by a collective irrational (social) body. Now, this is a
possible symptom of something trying to supersede Intellect and
looks to Society for support. We know from LILA how Intellect
joins forces with Biology in its struggle with their common
adversary Society, so a possible movement beyond will
necessarily team up with Society. And yet what is the principal
VALUE of an X-level?
John B asks the same question and have a lot of interesting inputs
on that, something I will try to comment tomorrow -along with
Denis' piece.
For myself I have many times hinted to MOQ itself as such a
candidate and how it depends upon a revised view of Intellect: an
issue that came up in September without being resolved -or
buried. For instance my enigmatic friend David B who in the said
"Substance.." treatise wrote about Society being the parent of
SOM, something that means that he sees Intellect as SOM, which
automatically makes the Q-idea into the first movement beyond
Intellect.
See you all.
Bo
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
