I absolutely do agree. It is not the issue of fluency or flow that makes me nervous, it is what seems to be happening in the name of fluency.
Lori On 7/8/07 7:51 PM, "RASINSKI, TIMOTHY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes I absolutely agree Lori. My concern is that slow, halting, and clearly > laborious reading is fine as long as the child understands what he or she > reads. In my opinion, and I think you agree, such reading is a concern that > needs to be addressed. Modeling reading, wide reading, and authentic > repeated readings are three important ways to address this concern. > > Timothy Rasinski > 404 White Hall > Kent State University > Kent, OH 44242 > 330-672-0649 > Cell -- 330-962-6251 > FAX 330-672-2025 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > informational website: www.timrasinski.com > professional development DVD: http://www.roadtocomprehension.com/ > <https://exchange.kent.edu/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.roadtocomprehe > nsion.com/> > > ________________________________ > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of ljackson > Sent: Sun 7/8/2007 10:28 PM > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Repeated Readings for Fluency - Question for Tim > > > > But Tim, the point of miscue is to work with the child to address those > issues which are impacting meaning and certainly think that halting heading > behaviors, unnecessary rereading and even over-correcting can certainly be > impacting oral fluency. Again, is it wide and successful reading that > builds fluency or fluency that ensures wide and successful reading. I > suppose a bit of both, don't you? > > Lori > > > On 7/8/07 4:06 PM, "RASINSKI, TIMOTHY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I applaud the child who reads haltingly in grades 2, 3, 4, 5 and comprehends >> well. However, if that student is still reading haltingly in the middle and >> high school grades it is going to catch up with him/her. A few years ago I >> worked with 9th graders in Chicago, more than a few of whom were reading at a >> rate of 20-30 words per minute on 8th grade passages. These students were >> ready to drop out of school they were so frustrated. >> >> If a normal achieving 9th grader reads at a rate of say 160 words per >> minute, >> any one hour reading assignment given to the student reading at 30 words per >> minute now becomes a 5 hour assignment. I would offer that this student is >> frustrated and, to be honest, I can understand their frustration. >> >> Unless we attempt to address these problems in the elementary grades we are >> likely to end up with high school students (assuming they don't drop out >> before high school) who are much like the ones I found in Chicago (and around >> the country). >> >> I think we need to take a look at the big picture. Are we really doing >> children a favor and ignoring their slow, halting, labored reading in the >> primary grades because they seem to be understanding what they read? Just >> thinking out loud here. >> >> Timothy Rasinski >> 404 White Hall >> Kent State University >> Kent, OH 44242 >> 330-672-0649 >> Cell -- 330-962-6251 >> FAX 330-672-2025 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> informational website: www.timrasinski.com >> professional development DVD: http://www.roadtocomprehension.com/ >> <https://exchange.kent.edu/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.roadtocompreh>> e >> nsion.com/> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Waingort Jimenez, >> Elisa >> Sent: Sun 7/8/2007 11:24 AM >> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Repeated Readings for Fluency - Question for Tim >> >> >> >> Hi Tim, >> I don´t think anyone is saying that fluency is worthless. I think the >> question was about a child who can read silently with comprehension but reads >> haltingly aloud. I still believe that there is no cause to worry in this >> case. To me, it´s the same issue that comes up when people say that until >> children can name the letters of the alphabet and the sounds of those >> letters, >> they shouldn´t be writing. I´m still not convinced that reading aloud >> fluently is important if the child reads silently (probably fluently) and >> with >> comprehension. As others have noted, reading aloud is a performance and some >> people don´t do well when they´re on stage. >> Any thoughts? >> Elisa Waingort >> Calgary, Canada >> >> Fluency can be a troubling concept >> -- I agree; but please don't decide that it is worthless because of the >> way some experts recommend it be taught. If done appropriately, I >> think (I know from my own clinical and classroom work) that it can be >> life saver for many students. >> >> >> Timothy Rasinski, Ph.D. >> Reading and Writing Center >> 404 White Hall >> Kent State University >> Kent, OH 44242 >> >> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Phone: 330-672-0649 >> Cell: 330-962-6251 >> Fax: 330-672-2025 >> Informational website: www.timrasinski.com >> Professional Development DVD: http://www.roadtocomprehension.com/ >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zoe Jackson >> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 8:35 PM >> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Repeated Readings for Fluency - Question for Tim >> >> Your third paragraph sounds so sensible to me. I've had a gut feeling >> recently that fluency is the present education craze, but a passing >> phase. It is an easy improvement to be able to measure, but does it >> actually develop comprehension skills. Thanks for your knowledgeable >> input. >> Zoe >> On Saturday, July 7, 2007, at 09:10 PM, elaine garan wrote: >> >>> I'm not Tim, but I'll jump in here with a thought that might put your >>> experience in a different perspective. >>> >>> Do you think it's possible that when he's reading aloud, he's so >>> focused on how he sounds that he isn't thinking about what he's >>> reading? This happens to me. When I'm reading in front of an audience, >>> very often, I have no idea of what I've read. Maybe this is a sign >> that >>> he's a mature reader. How often do any of us read aloud? How often do >>> we worry about how fluently we read or how we sound? And when we do >>> worry about that, what happens to our comprehension? Most of us do >> most >>> of our reading silently. >>> >>> Beyond beginning reading, beyond first grade, there is a zero >>> correlation between fluency and comprehension. In fact, fluency (in >>> terms of a focus on wpm and even prosody) can actually interfere with >>> comprehension because the reader is thinking about that performance >>> aspect instead of meaning, especially if he or she is being timed. . >>> The research supports that. So maybe this boy is a fluent as he needs >>> to be. And if he's reading silently with comprehension, then why worry >>> about how he sounds when he reads aloud since most of mature reading >>> and even reading for tests is silent anyway? >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, July 7, 2007, at 05:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> >>>> Yes he can. When he reads aloud he rereads constantly and has hardly >>>> any >>>> comprehension. If I ask him to read a page silently and tell me what >>>> it's about >>>> he can. He's a mystery. >>>> >>>> Sue >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ************************************** See what's free at >>>> http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com/> <http://www.aol.com/> . >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mosaic mailing list >>>> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >>>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ >>>> mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >>>> >>>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mosaic mailing list >>> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ >>> mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >>> >>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> > > -- > Lori Jackson > District Literacy Coach & Mentor > Todd County School District > Box 87 > Mission SD 57555 > > http:www.tcsdk12.org > ph. 605.856.2211 > > > Literacies for All Summer Institute > "Literate Lives: A Human Right" > July 12-15, 2007 > Louisville, Kentucky > > http://www.ncte.org/profdev/conv/wlu > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > -- Lori Jackson District Literacy Coach & Mentor Todd County School District Box 87 Mission SD 57555 http:www.tcsdk12.org ph. 605.856.2211 Literacies for All Summer Institute "Literate Lives: A Human Right" July 12-15, 2007 Louisville, Kentucky http://www.ncte.org/profdev/conv/wlu _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. 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