Mark Anderson: Well it's generally political skills, not management skills that results in promotions. In any case, I'm talking about a higher level of management skills than a even a good mid-level manager has. It's far from an easy task to change the culture of a big city police force, or else any candidate could do it.<<< *snip* Thanks Eva. Most of Jonathan's comments have been very reasonable, but he was overreaching here. Both of our comments are very subjective, because the evidence is so slim. The lack of evidence is my main point. I am concerned about McManus much more because we don't know what could do than that a few cops in Dayton don't like him.<<
Actually, Mark , no. My opinion that he is the best choice for the job, may be subjective but the lack of evidence to support your claim that he has alienated the street cops is pretty empirical. If you wish to make an assertion and for it to have merit, you need to provide some evidence or support and neither of you have yet to be able to do that. Thus, if you" "re really concerned about this alleged âlack of evidenceâ, Iâd suggest doing a bit of research to convince yourself definitively either way. But making subjective statements as if they were fact with no support is disingenuous in my opinion. And Iâm not sure what exactly youâre looking for in terms of evidence, but I listed a plethora of stats and accomplishments, but you still claim "lack of evidence". Yet it seems evidence enough for me, the selection committee and a host of community groups, citizens and elected officials that are supporting McManus. So what exactly and specifically are you looking for in terms of evidence? For a lot of people the evidence is apparent. Some people, however, will never think itâs enough no matter what and that ends the possibility of discussion or honest examination. So if you have some idea of what youâre looking for, put it out in case someone already knows, or research Dayton and DC, if only for your own piece of mind on it. As you talk about management vs. political, it becomes a double-edged sword. As you make statements to the effect of promotions being political, you also eliminate the validity of Gerold and Lubinskiâs promotions and rank, thus negating arguments from people claiming they are just as qualified and they should be chosen over McManus. And then we're left with only experience, which McManus has more of. As you ask the question of management ability, again, please clarify what youâre looking for. You cited your experience in medium and large size companies, and as such you should know that no matter how much a promotion is political, you donât keep it or get to stay with a company if youâre not effective or your division is not producing. Itâs fine to ask for evidence of being an effective manager, but claiming that one isnât because you havenâ t research evidence or you donât like what is presented to you is speculative and inaccurate. The simple fact of holding a Deputy/Assistant Chief position and then getting recruited for two Chief positions (three if you want to count Seattle) outside of his city (DC and now Dayton) is a pretty good indicator of him being an effective manager. Why would a department want someone who was ineffective? All the stuff I listed says effective to me. That may be subjective and my opinion, but then in that vein most of life is in those regards. But everytime I hear a new story it further reiterates this. Natalie Johnson-Lee saw his effectiveness in DC during the WTO protests. McManus described part of the situation being that a squad showed up minus badges and name tags and he made them go back in a put them on. Management, effective appropriate decision making and follow through by those under his command. And thereâs plenty more examples like this. So what are you looking for to say that he is or isnât effective? What is your criteria? Minus that you can simply say subjectively âitâs not enoughâ all day and there is no conclusion, but thatâs not objectively trying to discern if he is or isnât the right person for the job, and thatâs whatâs most important right now. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
