Neal Krasnoff's attacks on The Babylon indicate either a personal grudge against The Babylon or a general grudge towards any organization who includes support of Palestine among their political issues.
It is difficult to discuss the second aspect of the issue without going well beyond the local issues mandate of this list. However, claiming that a local arts collective was exhorting attacks on Jews, morally relating them to groups that would use propaganda like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and suggesting that they were destroyed by G-d for their works of evil demands some sort of response. Furthering that attack by directly calling the statements of a list member who attempted to describe what the collective was actually about lies adds to the need for a response. I'll try and walk the line by discussing my memories of the place. I have attended numerous events at The Babylon, although none in some time. These events included a wide range of things. * A friend's first gallery showing (non-political art, mostly about horses) * A musical performance by David Rovics (incredible.) * Round table discussions about Palestine and other issues. * A music and poetry open mic night. * Numerous movies about situations in Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq (most of these were filmed prior to the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq). * A couple non-political punk shows. * A fund raiser to send a group of women to Iraq and Palestine to collect art and do works of reconstruction. * Meetings to discuss supporting a friend who wanted to go to Palestine to document what she saw and do what she could to help people. The focus of the political side of things tended to be on the middle east, but they were certainly NOT anti-Jew. There was quite a bit of criticism of Israel and the actions of the Israeli state. There was support for RAWA (a group of Afghani women who has been working for women's rights in Afghanistan for many years). There was concerns about sanctions on Iraq (that dates that one). I remember one film that documented the propaganda that goes into continuing the hate in Palestinian / Israel - on both sides. I recall a very disturbing look on medical conditions in Afghanistan and another film - even worse - on the effects of DU in Iraq. A lot of folks from Anti-War committee could be found there from time to time. In conversations and discussions there, I recall talking with people of many faiths - Muslim, Jewish, Christian. I am pretty sure there were Buddhists, pagans, agnostics, and atheists as well. I never observed anyone getting upset at anyone for their choice or lack of faith at The Babylon. Would that be the case at an organization with an anti-Jewish agenda? I also recall talking to people with different feelings about Israel. Some supported it and wanted a peaceful two state solution. Some wanted Israel and Palestine blended into one modern state. Some wanted Israel abolished and the land given back to the Palestinians. Some were content with current borders, some were content with 1968 borders, some only with pre-1948 borders. Some of these discussions got extremely verbally heated, but never a hint of anything beyond that - and people on both sides of the conversation were there, at The Babylon. When it came to politics (which is not all that The Babylon was about), the organizers certainly did have a focus of concern on the middle east - particularly with Iraq, Palestine, and Afghanistan. While some of the people there were decidedly anti-Israel, I met none who were anti-Jewish. The people I interacted with at the Babylon would have been appalled at the idea of exhorting violence against Jews. Finally, to respond to a specific exchange: >> Anyone who visited the center would know that >> the artists and community members involved were >> deeply committed to peace and social justice. > > That is obviously a lie in this case: the website > clearly has a written exhortation to "GET OUT AND > FIGHT !" - the Jews, no doubt, since the pictures > have titles containing the names of Palestinian > towns. > > It is incitment to violence. That is not being > committed to "peace". One can only draw that conclusion if they hold "the Jews" responsible for the situation in Palestine - a claim I did not hear at The Babylon or see in those pictures. If that interpretation is made, the interpreter brings the prejudice in with them. The interpretation I take from it and took from The Babylon was that to "GET OUT AND FIGHT !" means to get out there and do something - both locally and non-locally. For me, it was to learn more and let people know what I'd learned, participate in demonstrations here in Minneapolis and in DC, and support people who were heading to Palestine. For others, it meant to disrupt their lives and head over to Palestine to do a myriad of actions (none, to my knowledge, violent). For many, it meant to lend their support to candidates who would put political pressure on Israel to change things (one of the areas which seriously caused me to question my historical support of Democrats). To fight - like "infatada" - means to struggle. Violence is a form of struggle, but only one form. There are many, many non-violent ways to fight - and ultimately, they achieve more lasting success. - Jason Goray Sheridan, NE __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? 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