The standard of expecting and demanding honesty at all times, has been advocated a couple of times on this list in response to the legal persecution of a Somali refuge. I would not want to argue against such a standard since I believe it is desirable and, if universally followed, would have a profoundly positive impact on society. In real life, particularly applied to this situation, the demand that one tell the truth no matter what seems to have some problems.

First, it is probably safe to assume that nobody making the value judgments about truthfulness has ever faced a situation where the consequences of telling the truth could be as grave as for most refugees, such as risking death or other physical danger, or being thrown out of this country without any safe place to go. (This is not suggesting that Omar Jamal actually did lied as charged). I don't believe any of us have full information about the stakes involved, but it is obviously easy to make judgments without full information, but far less appropriate to make judgments when have no personal experience that compares to the persecution faced by another. Assuming that those who have advocated complete truthfulness under any circumstances follow that standard, can they really commit to this standard if their life was in danger or they risked deportation from this country? It is one thing to demand honesty from politicians when performing their duties, which is often done appropriately on this list, but it is quite another when trying to dictate what someone in an extremely oppressed situation must do to survive.

The contrast with demanding truthfulness from politicalfigures leads to the glaring political hypocisy of this case. Mr. Jamal has been prosectuted for allegedly lying on an immigration form by a government whose leaders have lied to fool the country into accepting war, lied to cover up torture, illegal detentions, and other crimes against humanity. Where is the moral authority to judge and punish a refugee for allegedly making untrue statements of very limited consequence just so that he can live in this country? For those of us who want to encourage complete honesty, the honest way to begin is at the top.

Jordan S. Kushner
works downtown
GOlden Valley


----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Reinhardt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <mpls@mnforum.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:17 PM
Subject: [Mpls] Mpls Somali activist found guilty of immigration fraud



Equating the adjudication of a liar to the onslaught of the Holocaust is a
bit over dramatic. Omar Jamal has yet to sentence; there is still an
opportunity for justice to fit the crime and the individual. Fear
mongering, aside, Jamal's conviction poses an interesting corundum. Should
the lies of a "good" man be forgiven while the lies of a "bad" man are fully
prosecuted? Does a person's "good' intentions trump the fact that one has
uttered a lie, let alone five? Does Minneapolis need more leaders who have
the courage to lie than those who steadfastly tell the truth and suffer the
consequences?


Greg Reinhardt
Excelsior


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REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.


For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html
For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract
________________________________

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