There is no shame for a poor programmer, just the rich ones ;-) This is part of evolution or in some instances de-evolution. Look at the programming languages today. Today kids or young developers don't know squat about memory or computer systems, because they are spoiled with languages like Java and Visual Basic. Look at 'C' which protected most developers from having to do assembler. Are we really wasting brain power, or just putting our effort towards real solutions? Look at MQ which protects the programmer from knowing the different transport protocols.
Chris -----Original Message----- From: Francois Van der Merwe1 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MQSERIES AND CICS I've also seen companies getting so obsessed with "protecting the programmer from MQ complexity" (shame, poor programmers) that they layer themselves into a calling stack that is so far removed from MQ and the world of messaging in general, that it is really scary. In the end the programmers are nothing more than changing monkeys that know how to read company specific change diagrams - and then just do it. what a waste of brain power. Francois van der Merwe Ronald Weinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .COM> cc: Sent by: MQSeries Subject: Re: MQSERIES AND CICS List <[EMAIL PROTECTED] N.AC.AT> 10/06/2003 22:28 Please respond to MQSeries List Oh no! A rebel without a queue. "Robert Broderick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OTMAIL.COM> cc: Sent by: "MQSeries Subject: Re: MQSERIES AND CICS List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .AC.AT> 06/10/2003 03:59 PM Please respond to "MQSeries List" So lets say a programmer has only to receive a message and process it. The company picks the bridge. When does the programmer get to learn about MQ?? I have interviewed people who have worked at companies that allowed them access to MQ through their own home grown software (wrappers) These people were useless (in regards to detailed MQ knowledge). The company while pretending to isolate themselves from the messaging layer for the purpose of maybe changing later (remember MQ has about an 84% market share) (hahaha!! Change later?? To What??) has basically limited the usefulness of it's staff to accommodate change. Remember we came into technology to embrace ALL the aspects of technology not to be the porn (opps sorry) pawn of some technology wizards corporate paranoias. If you disagree call 1-800-LACTOSS (Dennis Miller, not to be confused with our beloved DM!!) bee-oh-dubble-bee-dubble-egh >From: Randy J Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: MQSERIES AND CICS >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:05:59 -0700 > >The Bridge simply reads the message passes it to your program BUT it is not >called by your program like a wrapper. Its monitoring a queue and when a >message arrives it reads it and links to your program and passes the >message to your program in the commarea. > > >This is not going to be a substitute for times when you have to add MQ API >calls into an existing program. Your programmers can not always use the >bridge and thus they will learn the API calls. The API from batch to >online is the same so have no fear they will not be isolated from learning >the MQ API just because they use the bridge in appropriate situations. > > > > Robert Broderick > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > otmail.com> cc: > Sent by: MQSeries Subject: Re: MQSERIES AND >CICS > List > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > .AC.AT> > > > 06/10/2003 07:35 > AM > Please respond to > MQSeries List > > > > > > >Back to my comments and Dennis'. You will end up building something simular >to what the bridge offers. Except you will be in charge of the coding. So >if >you have requirements NOW or in the Future that the Bridge does not address >it is within you scope to add it. > >Now it becomes a point of getting someone to write the code. The Bridge, >although I never worked with it, is a wrapper for MQ to your CICS programs. >Do you want your CICS programmers sheilded from the MQ stuff. That is a >call >for your IT people. I prefer to allow everyone to be educated. Makes for a >more robust programming environment. Some will argue that it also >intorduces >the "WILDCARD" syndrome. Toooo much knowledge is dangerous. I on the other >hand believ in "Give them a fish and they eat for the day. Teach them to >Fish and they will be less likely to p.i.s.s in the water!! > > > bobbee > > > >From: June Lawton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: MQSERIES AND CICS > >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:38:02 -0400 > > > >I was thinking more along the lines of functionality, additional coding > >requirements, DPL, etc. For our proof of concept project we want to > >replace an application that currently accesses CICS via an EXCI from a >DB2 > >stored procedure. Currently this request goes directly into an AOR. > >However, with our future apps, we may want them to be 3270 initiated via > >the TOR. > > > >I guess what I am asking under what will one give you that the other > >doesn't? Basically we want to get tinto CICS and just run the existing > >programs. > > > > > > > > > > > >June Lawton > >Information Systems > >The PMA Insurance Group > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >(T) 610.397.5058 > >(F) 610.397.5311 > >----- Forwarded by June Lawton/PMA/PMAGroup on 06/10/2003 08:40 AM ----- > > > > Robert Broderick > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > OTMAIL.COM> cc: > > Sent by: MQSeries Subject: Re: MQSERIES >AND > >CICS > > List > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > .AC.AT> > > > > > > 06/09/2003 07:24 > > PM > > Please respond to > > MQSeries List > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Unwillingness by corp to fund education > >reluctance by staff to lean new technology > >project funding for development tasks > >legacy code toolset vacuum > > > > > > >From: June Lawton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: MQSERIES AND CICS > > >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:50:35 -0400 > > > > > >What would the determining factors be for using the MQ Adapter as >opposed > > >to MQ Bridge with CICS? > > > > > > > > > > > >June Lawton > > >Information Systems > > >The PMA Insurance Group > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >(T) 610.397.5058 > > >(F) 610.397.5311 > > > > > >Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided >in > > >the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com > > >Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > >Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in > >the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com > >Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive > > > >Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in > >the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com > >Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > >Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in >the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com >Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive > >Instructions for managing your mailing list subscription are provided in >the Listserv General Users Guide available at http://www.lsoft.com >Archive: http://vm.akh-wien.ac.at/MQSeries.archive _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. 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