Someone in this thread needs to remember his Economics 101 and the classic
supply-demand curves. At the same time we expect decent wages we also expect lower
prices for "the things that we buy". The manufacturers of "the things that we buy"
constantly look for ways to lower the cost of manufacturing, sales and distribution so
that their products are most attractively priced so that we tend to buy theirs.
Lowering costs is why companies turn to other sources for their IT
requirements.....because we, IT workers, are also consumers. We have again met the
enemy and it is us. Start buying products without regard to price and things may
change. Otherwise everyone on this thread needs to read the ancient, but still
applicable, "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations" by Adam
Smith in which he describes the famous 'invisible hand' which describes our economic
behaviors. An excerpt (quote):
Every individual necessarily labors to render the annual revenue of the society as
great as he can. He generally neither intends to promote the public interest, nor
knows how much he is promoting it...He intends only his own gain, and he is in this,
as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part
of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for society that it was no part of his
intention. By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society
more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much
good done by those who affected to trade for the public good.
Is anyone on this thread immune to what is stated there?
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/18/03 08:42AM >>>
HUMMM. Sounds like the start of the Great Depression. Too many goods and no
one to buy them. Which leads to corporate cut backs which leads to more no
one to buy products which..........
I feel the teeth sinking into my American butt as we speak!! We have finally
caught our perverbal tail and are eating ourselves! Too smart for our own
good!!
bobbee
>From: "Fryett.Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: MQSeries List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: Spiraling downhill (OT)
>Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:25:27 -0400
>
>The problem honestly is not that American cars were bad back then, it was
>the fact we wanted to support our local salvage yard where cousin bud
>worked.
>
>Truly what I have found over the years is US workers have become to
>comfortable in their jobs, and that created laziness among a number of
>them. Then the DOT.COM's crashed occurred and many investors,
>corporations, and VC's discovered they bought into vaporware. So, when
>corporations realized they over extended themselves they decided the best
>way to resolve the issue was to outsource certain parts of the companies
>projects overseas and fire/layoff the US workers. Heck, if you had to pay
>someone $0.10 - $0.30 to the $1.00 and it was your money wouldn't you? So,
>how do you compete with it? You can't unless you are willing to work for
>less and that is exactly what is happening. The butt heads of the past
>screwed it up for us today. Also the problem is the cost-of-living isn't
>going down to compensate for this reduction so now you'll have to work two
>or three jobs to equal what you make now. Say good-bye to your kids and
>spouse because you will not see them for a long time. Also, get your grave
>arranged, because the stress alone will kill you quicker than smoking.
>
>It may be time to go back to school and become a psychologist where you can
>sleep through your counseling sessions, and on occasion say "That sounds
>interesting have you tried another way to handle that". Sorry, regressing
>;^)
>
>Chris
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randy J Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 6:01 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: Spiraling downhill (OT)
>
>
>First off I am not a Honda employee...
>
>I agree things will turn around as the rest of the world prospers but it
>will be a long time coming and painful along the way...
>
>When did the American cars become competitive the 90's well that was a
>painful 20-30 years in the US auto industry so I guess the bulk of the next
>20-30 years are going to be painful for US IT workers. I agree with that
>assessment then.
>
>Are you instructing college age children to go into the IT field or steer
>clear...
>
>The US Auto industry was once number one in the world and what is it now?
>Sure still a case can be made that it is number one but only by the har on
>its chinny chin chin and I would bet hardly any on this board drive and
>American car.
>
>If we stay with the auto industry example the US IT industry dominance is
>also gone never to return!!
>
>CONED has no unions huh? I would assume by your comments you are 5 years
>or less from retirement - and thus have no worries... I pity the current
>crop of CS college graduates - what they saw when they entered college and
>what they are getting 4-5 years later is sure two different pictures.
>
>BTW I have contracted at only Japanese companies for 20 years! :)
>
>Honda worldwide sells and builds more cars in the US than in any other
>market - we build and export 1000's of cars from the US each and every
>week.
>
>
>
> "Beinert,
> William" To:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:
> OM> Subject: Re: Spiraling
>downhill (OT)
> Sent by: MQSeries
> List
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> N.AC.AT>
>
>
> 06/17/2003 12:12
> PM
> Please respond to
> MQSeries List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>LMAO at this rant from a Honda employee...
>He may have quoted this word for word from the auto workers unnions in the
>60s when US cars were garbage because they didn't have any competition from
>manufacturers who did care about quality.
>I remember being told Japanese cars were cheap becuase the workers only
>were paid a bowl of rice a day.
>Today Japanese labor is as expensive as US labor....
>
>Things will even out as the rest of the world becomes more prosperous, and
>the free flow of goods and services will only speed the process.
>
>Bill
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randy J Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 2:36 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: Spiraling downhill
>
>
>AMEN! Start a union, or maybe get our legislature to wake up and smell the
>coffee...
>
>The good old USA lost 2 million jobs last year. Offshore jobs reduce our
>wages and also pay zero income taxes. Do you hear that that sucking sound
>its these jobs on our economy. These offshore income earners at Americans
>expense spend zero, none, nada, zip, zilch, money in America resulting in
>zero sales taxes being paid as well. This great offshore push only lines
>the pockets of the CEO's and the like. They are nothing but a drain on
>our economy. It may not be your job today but it could be tomorrow. I
>wonder how long we will go and how bad it will get before we get serious
>about a union or employing a powerful lobbyist.
>
>
><snip, snip>
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