On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Jan van Thiel <z...@musicbrainz.org> wrote:
> On 27 February 2010 17:02, Brian Schweitzer > <brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Jan van Thiel <z...@musicbrainz.org> > wrote: > >> This is a fourth RFC, rephrased compared to the third RFC. On the JIRA > >> bug tracker this RFC is located at [4]. > >> > >> ---------- > >> > >> I'd like to see attribute 'translated' added to the Lyricist > >> Relationship Type[1]. > >> > >> The phrase for this attribute could read "This attribute describes if > >> the lyrics are a translation of the same work in another language." > >> > >> This should only be used for lyrics that somehow follow the original > >> lyrics (e.g. carry the overall meaning of the work into the other > >> language). The 'translated' attribute does not apply on cases where > >> the meaning of the lyrics is unrelated (i.e. only the music is > >> related/covered). > > > > I know this is where this got bogged down the last time, and this is > > definitely better, but "follow the original > > lyrics (e.g. carry the overall meaning of the work into the other > > language)." still seems like it's stretching; it specifies something, but > > the something it's defining is so vague that I can see lots of potential > > misreadings and loopholes. Would something like this (to replace the > entire > > above paragraph) maybe work better? > > > > "While a literal translation is not required for this attribute, the > > translated lyrics should still be distinctly and detectably derived from > the > > original lyrics." and leave any further value judgments for the voters to > > decide? > > I guess this is better. Finally a native English speaker gives it a go ;) > > >> Parody translations should be linked with Parody Relationship > >> Attribute[2] of the Cover Relationship Type[3], not with this > >> attribute. > >> > > > > What if the original song were a serious song with lyrics in German, and > the > > new song were an English parody of the German song? To give this some > > purely hypothetical context, consider a parody version of the German > > football team's (hypothetical) fight song, released by the fan of a team > > from South Africa, taunting the German team during the World Cup. Would > > that use both parody and translated, or would the last bit above exclude > > *any* parodies, translated or not? > > It should exclude *all* parodies, whether they are translated or not. > Parodies in general have new lyrics, right? > > I guess that's where I'd see the judgment of the voters coming into play. It's not a translation from any other language, but wouldn't you consider "We will, we will, mock you!" (just one at random; http://www.com-www.com/weirdal/submissions/parody-049.html ) to be essentially the same lyrics, but satirized? I just get the sense that there's cases where both attributes could be true, so making the two attributes explicitly mutually exclusive seems like its being over-restrictive. Is your aim to block these perhaps rare "almost the same, even in translation, parody lyrics" cases, or to avoid something like http://www.com-www.com/weirdal/submissions/parody-049.html having an English-English satirization of the lyrics misinterpreted as "translation"? Brian
_______________________________________________ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
