Also I think James' comment about efficiency is important to consider. Said you tossed a commercial UPS in there with 0% efficiency, and the draw was 100W instead of 50W. Assuming the average US electricity pricing of $0.16, that waste is costing around $70 a year..
Assuming this isn't an off-grid scenario where every W matters, is it really worth jumping through all these hoops for that? On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 5:12 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > "If you have requirements that there aren't good existing commercial > solutions for, make it yourself. How do you think all this was done in the > beginning? " > > *nods* That's how I started my WISP >20 years ago. I mean, I didn't build > anything from scratch, but I was selecting mini PCI cards, adapters, > antennas, etc. > > "in a fairly small project box" > > Ya know, that might really be the solution. No one (well, few) is opening > their electric breakers and criticizing the electrician's work or their > alarm panels or... Put the mess behind a box. Same mess, but inside a > pretty box. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > Midwest-IX > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Beecher" <[email protected]> > To: "North American Network Operators Group" <[email protected]> > Cc: "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 4:05:51 PM > Subject: Re: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS > > > > > Sure, but I can't just drop that into a car wash, a pizza joint, a used > car lot, etc. These aren't places that have battery rooms or even equipment > racks. > > We may look at it and think it's cool and geek out on how the different > (still COTS) components were assembled, wired, etc. A layperson will just > call that a mess and question if I know what I'm doing. > > > You should be able to put the electronics (rectifier, charge controller, > RPi/NUC for mgmt ) in a fairly small project box, along with an > appropriately sized battery, and have a nice, clean looking solution. > > > If you have requirements that there aren't good existing commercial > solutions for, make it yourself. How do you think all this was done in the > beginning? > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 3:41 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < > [email protected] > wrote: > > > Sure, but I can't just drop that into a car wash, a pizza joint, a used > car lot, etc. These aren't places that have battery rooms or even equipment > racks. > > We may look at it and think it's cool and geek out on how the different > (still COTS) components were assembled, wired, etc. A layperson will just > call that a mess and question if I know what I'm doing. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > Midwest-IX > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Svec via NANOG" < [email protected] > > To: "North American Network Operators Group" < [email protected] > > Cc: "Brandon Svec" < [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 2:18:54 PM > Subject: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS > > You can buy a rectifier and batteries so it doesn't have to be a science > project. Back in the day, all our large PBX installations had batteries > and a rectifier. Sometimes isolated battery rooms adjacent to the switch > room. There must be smaller, less expensive rectifiers. The catch is all > the gear needs to support the DC power source. LaMarche has been around > and was a common brand. I guess those portable, solar power banks are > basically rectifiers too as long as they have some DC outputs to use. > *Brandon Svec* > > > > On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 11:55 AM Mike Hammett via NANOG < > [email protected] > wrote: > > > I'm trying to find something that keeps my customer's network gear > online > > for a meaningful amount of time. The challenge is that an ONT, firewall, > > switch, AP, and some IP phones doesn't add up to be very much load. Most > > normal UPSes get terribly inefficient at lower load ratings. Add up all > of > > the network devices a customer may have and we rarely break 50 watts of > > load. Normal, small UPSes are lucky to break 50% efficiency at those > loads > > whereas they may be 95% efficient at say 100 or 200 watts. Get a bigger > > unit with a bigger battery and now you're even less efficient. Get a big > > enough unit to have extendable batteries and now you're spending > thousands > > of dollars for such a small request. > > > > I've gone asking, but haven't really gotten anywhere. The best technical > > solution was from some electronics parts nerds that was basically to > build > > my own small rectifier and battery system. Great. I can achieve high > > efficiencies with small loads, letting me have say 4 or 8 hours of > battery. > > However, I've got a science project, not something I can deploy at a > > customer. > > > > I'm hoping one of you has the magic bullet in what product a service > > provider should use in this scenario. > > > > Oh, and of course, being able to centrally manage them from my own iron > > would be great too. :-) > > > > > > > > ----- > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest-IX > > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NANOG mailing list > > > > > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/7P2J2YK3S6257XKFJ54NWABALF62DACL/ > > > _______________________________________________ > NANOG mailing list > > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/HDTWBYM4WFORT645DXWWHMKKORJ6UHCZ/ > > _______________________________________________ > NANOG mailing list > > https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/WCDPWL6OUK7NKRQ4RLXMNHKVBOUSKYVO/ > > _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/Q7NAL55GFVHPQM2HIR4TH5OJXOBA3NHD/
