I still moved to RSA-8192 bit keys over five years ago, and would have gone
further but that's the largest some things support.

For internal things where I can decide what to support, mostly 65536 and a
few 131072 bit keys, because even quantum computers are going to have a
rough ride with those :)

Ginormous RSA keys are kind of even their own inherent proof-of-work if you
want to have identities that are costly to make, without having to have any
actual infrastructure to support them, it's not hard to choose a key size
that represently at least a CPU-month or even a year worth of work.


On Thu, Sep 4, 2025 at 5:15 PM Tom Beecher via NANOG <[email protected]>
wrote:

> >
> > RSA-768 was successfully factored / private key derived from public key
> in
> > 2009. The highest successful one before RSA shut down the RSA factoring
> > challenge.
>
>
> Yes, impractical was the right word there, not impossible.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2025 at 4:15 PM Gary Sparkes <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> >
> > >The bedrock principle of public key cryptography is that it is
> impossible
> > to re-create a private key while only having the public key. This is not
> > "mathematically hard" ; it is currently considered mathematically
> > IMPOSSIBLE. And until such a time as a quantum computer can do it, it
> > remains impossible.
> >
> > One issue here - It's possible, but computationally expensive.
> > Exponentially more so as key size increases.
> >
> > RSA-768 was successfully factored / private key derived from public key
> in
> > 2009. The highest successful one before RSA shut down the RSA factoring
> > challenge.
> >
> > It's a matter of time/computer resources, not outright impossible. That
> > was almost 16 years ago.
> >
> > https://eprint.iacr.org/2010/006 &
> >
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/01/768-bit-rsa-cracked-1024-bit-safe-for-now/
> >
> > Whereas time estimates scale up exponentially as key length increases,
> > with classical computers it is a "solved" problem for this algorithm,
> but a
> > computationally expensive one.
> >
> > 1024 should be feasible these days in a "reasonable" timeframe - the 2009
> > RSA-768 took approximately 2 years months of real-time processing across
> a
> > sizable cluster (80 processors). We can obviously scale much further now.
> >
> > 4096 is still in the realm of geological or universe-scale timeframes for
> > classical computing, however.
> >
> > ===========
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2025 at 12:16 PM Dan Mahoney <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Sep 4, 2025, at 05:21, Tom Beecher <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dan-
> > > >
> > > > The main concern I have with your post, and the reason I have been
> > > > so
> > > vocal in these messages , centers around the following :
> > > >
> > > > Or you might consider just going back to using inline passwords and
> > > consider Cisco’s ssh implementation a failure at launch — at least the
> > > “secret” hashing algorithms are salted, but on older kit, it’s also
> > > still md5.
> > > >
> > > > It's absolutely fair to criticize their implementation in its
> > > > current
> > > form. I could see it making sense 20 years ago, but they've had time
> > > to iterate and improve on it, and should have.
> > > >
> > > > However, Cisco's implementation is not vulnerable to any currently
> > > > known
> > > exploits, and no theoretical attack vectors don't seem to apply either.
> > > >
> > > > The fact that you make a recommendation for readers to *stop using
> > > public key SSH auth* because of that is , respectfully, absolutely
> > > irresponsible. Someone, somewhere is going to read this, and follow
> > > this advice, making their device LESS secure, and for no good reason.
> > > We don't tell people that current cryptography might eventually
> > > someday be vulnerable to quantum computers , so stop using cryptography
> > completely.
> > > You are doing that here, by saying "This might be exploitable some
> > > day, so don't use it."  Everything MIGHT be exploitable some day,
> > > that's how it goes.
> > >
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > You see those things on either sides of the words “stop using public
> > > key SSH auth” ?  Those are called quotation marks, and they mean, in
> > > this context, that you are directly citing my words, to the larger
> group.
> > >
> > > Except that those words, in that order, appear nowhere in my article,
> > > which hasn’t changed at all, except for one typo which I’ve since
> > > corrected.
> > >
> > > I make no such recommendation.  My usage of the word “you might” is
> > > not a recommendation, it’s a statement that people may do their own
> > > research and carefully consider how they put an older device online,
> > > if at all.  Where you’ve cited me bashing md5, I am referring to its
> > > crypt() implementation, also used in Cisco type 5 secrets, matching my
> > > recommendations with that of the NSA.  If anything, I’ll happily
> > > suggest that the best answer for an EOL or near-EOL devices is “just
> use
> > a serial cable”.
> > >
> > > But back to your quote.
> > >
> > > I believe that you’re seeing words that literally aren’t on the page,
> > > and are citing them to a public mailing list, claiming they’re mine.
> > >
> > > This is not ok.
> > >
> > > -Dan
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NANOG mailing list
> >
> >
> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/FRQXA3TFDLTHZ2T7I7T2B2SMA6TLMJDG/
> >
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>
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