My experience has actually been that if I can likely determine the
cause BEFORE they speak to a representative and I can play a message
informing them "We have noticed your equipment may have lost power, please
check the power to your equipment before continuing", my customer
satisfaction actually goes up.

I wouldn't suggest playing it for everyone, just those where you have seen
that last gap.

Shane

On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 2:04 PM Josh Luthman <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I may do that.  I haven't gotten to the point where I want to.
>
> Imagine your parents or grandparents call in wanting to speak to an agent
> only to end up listening to a recording.  That's frustrating for the end
> user.  Like when you call any 800 number and it starts giving you options
> and wanting you to provide information to talk to the right department who
> of course answers only to transfer you to a different department.
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2025, 1:53 PM Shane Ronan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't it make sense to then play a message for those users before they
>> even connect to a representative to check the power to their equipment?
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 1:41 PM Josh Luthman via NANOG <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Because we would get things like "why is my IP address super long, I
>>> can't
>>> play Xbox now" or "my computer says it is IPv6 enabled, does that mean
>>> someone hacked me?"
>>>
>>> I manage the entire thing and let me give you an example of a ticket from
>>> this morning.  The customer called in and said they unplugged some things
>>> and moved stuff around the house.  Since then their internet/phone
>>> (landline) has not been working.  CSR asked if device was plugged in to
>>> power.  It was not.  Customer plugged it in.
>>>
>>> You have to realize the people we're dealing with on this topic.  We get
>>> the calls for anything internet related at all because people don't use
>>> their brain to connect the situation of unplugging the internet company's
>>> box from power and it not working.  I wrote a script that takes all
>>> incoming calls and scans the customer's device to see if it has dying
>>> gasp
>>> and then posts to Slack.  That post comes up for 20% of our calls -
>>> people
>>> without power or unplugging it.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 1:35 PM Tom Beecher <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I did.  I'm looking at it from the perspective of managing tier 1
>>> customer
>>> >> support issues through the tick box of enable IPv6 and managing their
>>> >> subnets.  Implementation for me doesn't stop once it's enabled on the
>>> >> router.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Not picking on you specifically here, but it's generally funny to hear
>>> > "none of my users ask for V6" , then "my support will be run over with
>>> V6
>>> > setup questions". :)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 3:09 PM Josh Luthman <
>>> [email protected]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> >Read my entire message please. That statement was speaking to the
>>> >> implementation issues.
>>> >>
>>> >> I did.  I'm looking at it from the perspective of managing tier 1
>>> >> customer support issues through the tick box of enable IPv6 and
>>> managing
>>> >> their subnets.  Implementation for me doesn't stop once it's enabled
>>> on the
>>> >> router.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 2:48 PM Tom Beecher <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> That's absolutely not true.  Tier 1 support will have to deal with v6
>>> >>>> issues.  Customers will have additional issues due to IPv6.
>>> Absolutely
>>> >>>> more than a v4 only network (today, not speaking for the future).
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Read my entire message please. That statement was speaking to the
>>> >>> implementation issues.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I addressed (separately) the support aspects. Are there cases where
>>> v6
>>> >>> specifically causes customer issues? Yes. Are those cases
>>> exceedingly rare
>>> >>> these days? Yes. While things happen, the vast majority of user
>>> facing
>>> >>> stuff these days follows Happy Eyeballs pretty good, and Just Works
>>> when
>>> >>> you have both 4 and 6 available.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 2:28 PM Josh Luthman via NANOG <
>>> >>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> >Yes there can be some things to shake out to implement it, but once
>>> >>>> those
>>> >>>> are done, they're done.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> That's absolutely not true.  Tier 1 support will have to deal with
>>> v6
>>> >>>> issues.  Customers will have additional issues due to IPv6.
>>> Absolutely
>>> >>>> more than a v4 only network (today, not speaking for the future).
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >What are your end users talking to that is IPv4-only these days,
>>> >>>> because
>>> >>>> it’s not much pretty much all the e-mail/cloud/office/docs things
>>> are
>>> >>>> IPv6
>>> >>>> these days, and yeah it’s harder to remember 2620:fe::fe than
>>> 9.9.9.9
>>> >>>> but
>>> >>>> who besides a few of us still have phone numbers memorized either
>>> these
>>> >>>> days?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Little websites named after a forest and an auction website for old
>>> junk
>>> >>>> (Amazon and Ebay).
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 2:23 PM Jared Mauch via NANOG <
>>> >>>> [email protected]>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > > On Dec 1, 2025, at 2:06 PM, Tom Beecher via NANOG <
>>> >>>> [email protected]>
>>> >>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>> > >
>>> >>>> > >>
>>> >>>> > >>> this thread has done nothing except rehash the same viewpoints
>>> >>>> that get
>>> >>>> > >> discussed ad nauseam for the last however many years.
>>> >>>> > >>
>>> >>>> > >> I'm not sure if you just don't see it or you're being funny.
>>> >>>> > >
>>> >>>> > >
>>> >>>> > > It's a correct statement.
>>> >>>> > >
>>> >>>> > > "IPv6 doesn't work" : Google's stats show that just shy of 50%
>>> of
>>> >>>> all
>>> >>>> > their
>>> >>>> > > traffic is native V6. Most of the largest CDNs will give you
>>> similar
>>> >>>> > > answers. Yes there can be some things to shake out to implement
>>> it,
>>> >>>> but
>>> >>>> > > once those are done, they're done.
>>> >>>> > >
>>> >>>> > > "My customers don't ask for it." : Customers don't ask for IPv4.
>>> >>>> They
>>> >>>> > don't
>>> >>>> > > ask for NAT/CGNAT either. But you do those things I'm sure,
>>> because
>>> >>>> as
>>> >>>> > you
>>> >>>> > > said, they just want things to work.
>>> >>>> > >
>>> >>>> > > The answer is really money. You made a business decision not to
>>> >>>> incur the
>>> >>>> > > hardware/software/support costs to implement V6 for your
>>> customers.
>>> >>>> > That's
>>> >>>> > > fine, no shame in that. Maybe that will never be a problem for
>>> you,
>>> >>>> > maybe
>>> >>>> > > someday it will and it will cost you. Who knows.
>>> >>>> > >
>>> >>>> > > But just be honest and call it what it is, instead of half baked
>>> >>>> > statements
>>> >>>> > > that have been repeated for decades.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Exactly.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Talking to friends at companies that do social networking stuff
>>> pretty
>>> >>>> > much all their traffic (over 90%) is from mobile devices, and
>>> when I
>>> >>>> look
>>> >>>> > at the big 3 mobile networks in the US they all do IPv6.  Their
>>> MVNO’s
>>> >>>> > might vary, but the main networks do IPv6.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I find myself having to tether off their networks when I’m on IPv4
>>> >>>> only
>>> >>>> > networks to access things like my hypervisors and other assets
>>> that
>>> >>>> are
>>> >>>> > IPv6-only because they have superior networking these days.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > If you are doing IPv4-only, you are only harming yourself
>>> long-term.
>>> >>>> The
>>> >>>> > solutions are there for all the things you think you will
>>> encounter.
>>> >>>> For
>>> >>>> > the most part it’s 96 more bits, no magic.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Yes there are a few nuances to be aware of, like proxy-arp saves a
>>> >>>> lot of
>>> >>>> > people when they do kinky things in IPv4 and proxy-NDP is there,
>>> but
>>> >>>> not in
>>> >>>> > the same way on many platforms.  One of the last big hurdles out
>>> >>>> there was
>>> >>>> > IPv6 support for VTEP in FRR in my mind and that gap was recently
>>> >>>> closed.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I also happen to think that Apple got it wrong when they rolled
>>> >>>> private
>>> >>>> > relay out, they kept the inbound tunnel protocol to outbound proxy
>>> >>>> behavior
>>> >>>> > on the same address family when they could have upgraded it on the
>>> >>>> outbound
>>> >>>> > side to IPv6 which would have closed the gap even more.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > What are your end users talking to that is IPv4-only these days,
>>> >>>> because
>>> >>>> > it’s not much pretty much all the e-mail/cloud/office/docs things
>>> are
>>> >>>> IPv6
>>> >>>> > these days, and yeah it’s harder to remember 2620:fe::fe than
>>> 9.9.9.9
>>> >>>> but
>>> >>>> > who besides a few of us still have phone numbers memorized either
>>> >>>> these
>>> >>>> > days?
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Do you need a ton of IPv4 space?  Not really, but if you’re a
>>> cable
>>> >>>> > company like RCN, yeah you’re not doing any upgrades, but if you
>>> are
>>> >>>> > leaving assets on IPv4 just because you are leaving them on IPv4,
>>> >>>> then at
>>> >>>> > some point you are just wasting money.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Send it to me and Tom so we can buy more hockey tickets.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > - Jared
>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> > NANOG mailing list
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>>
>>> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/NMBYWMNZ7ROM6WMGFJ7IAYLKPFQG3BUO/
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> NANOG mailing list
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/5M7ANDNUNQRIODBM5B6IGSH3P4XPSBYJ/
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NANOG mailing list
>>>
>>> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/JW5R7VO75I5RN4B4H2F4GF7NBMXRHH7E/
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list 
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/ZB4VVBV62GFMWTTAM6EKFLYDA4HFWIZM/

Reply via email to