On Mon, 21 Jan 2008, William Herrin wrote:
Hmm. Well, the secondary market is flooded with sup2's right now, with
the card at sub-$1k prices and with a 6500+sup2 in the $5k range.
There isn't really a comparable availability of the sup720-3bxl
although eBay does have a few listed in the $12k range. If we take
I started to get into this in the last message and decided not to...but
another problem with these comparisons is the 'going rate' for Sup2s
is very likely depressed considerably due to their no longer being
suitable for full BGP table applications. Go back a couple years, and
they were quite a bit more $...probably closer to $10k.
Another is that networks having to upgrade now already bought whatever
they're upgrading from (i.e. Sup2s) some time ago at prices similar to
what the 3bxls go for now. So they're not just having to spend more or
the difference...they're having to nearly double their investment in full
table routers (some parts such as the chassis and line cards will likely
remain in service).
I wouldn't want to stand behind those numbers, though. I'm not sure
what the error band is, but it has to be huge. The equivalence in the
secondary market just isn't there. Nor can we use $12k as the baseline
price for the sup720-3bxl. There isn't wide availability at that
price, just a few sketchy sellers from Hong Kong.
I wonder if those are being faked yet?
Is there really any point in trying to put a $ figure on each route?
Common sense should tell us that polluting the DFZ will eventually cost
every network wanting/needing to participate real money (thousands for
smaller networks, hundreds of thousands or millions for larger
networks/backbones)...so we really ought to be putting effort into
education rather than crunching theoretical numbers to determine exactly
how many french fries each route equates to.
I know from past experience, that ARIN can step in and 'use their
influence' to get transit providers to not accept routes they don't think
an ASN should be announcing (acquisition that went way south). I don't
know what sort of yearly cash flow surpluses the other RIRs have, but IIRC
ARIN is doing quite well. The stats I have from last September suggest
the 'ARIN region' is the worst as far as longer than RIR minimum routes
being announced. Perhaps ARIN could task one or more people with
examining the ARIN portion of the DFZ, and contacting the networks
announcing unnecessary deaggregates and when necessary their transit
providers, for the purpose of educating and when necessary, leaning on
them to clean up their configs. Actually, there are already people doing
the first part of that job for free...so all ARIN would have to do is
accept & check data that's already been researched and pluck the ARIN
member networks from it.
I know, BGP Police is not part of ARIN's mission...but they have the $ to
put people on the job and the influence to perhaps get people to pay
attention. In my limited experience trying that role, I found networks
were totally uninterested in cleaning up and it wasn't even possible to
get directly in touch with someone who'd understand the issue much less
have access to do anything about it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Lewis | I route
Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are
Atlantic Net |
_________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
