On Jun 16, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Quinn Mahoney wrote:
Is there a competing droplist, that can be compared against Spamhaus's
droplist? That seems like an extraordinary claim, so I'm not
satisfied
with the evidence provided. Is this not the best droplist?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Mr. Anderson gives
little proof at all, and not even close to extraordinary proof, IMHO.
My personal experience is that Spamhaus is highly respectable
organization. They are by no means perfect, but I trust their
judgement to a high degree, FWIW. The Spamhaus DNSRBLs are, I
believe, the most used on the Internet. This suggests the rest of the
Internet has a different opinion than Mr. Anderson.
I have not used MAPS, so I cannot comment on its utility. but I have
never heard a single credible claim Mr. Vixie is a spammer, more or
less a verifiable one. (Yes, that includes the claim below.) From my
personal experience, Mr. Vixie is very much the opposite of a
spammer. Mr. Vixie gave the Keynote speech at the NANOG conference
yesterday, so I would submit the community at large disagrees with Mr.
Anderson's assessment.
SORBS is probably not as highly regarded as Spamhaus, but as with
Vixie, not one credible claim has ever been made that Michelle is a
spammer, including the below. Again, the opposite is reality, and
probably to the same extent as Vixie. (I.e. Some people think they go
too far in fighting spam, not in sending it.)
Finally, John Levine is not a spammer either. I'm kinda tired of
giving proof, so take my word for it, or not, as you please.
Anyway, just some personal opinions from someone who has had personal
interaction with the people involved and used two of the three
products mentioned. Not sure this was operational, but I felt the
need to step up and defend people after you forwarded the outrageous
claims below to the list. (No one on the list saw Mr. Anderson's
claims other than you, because you were personally CC'ed.)
End of day, your network, your choice. I think you know mine.
--
TTFN,
patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Anderson [mailto:d...@av8.com]
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:10 PM
To: Quinn Mahoney
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: spamhaus drop list
I suggest you avoid spamhaus, MAPS, and SORBS. They are really
spammers
in disguise, using blacklists to harm their competition while
presumably
letting their own spam through. We know they have used trust of the
anti-spam community to list-wash spam-trap addresses.
See http://www.iadl.org/whitehat/whitehat-story.html add the IADL
pages
on Paul Vixie and MAPS.
You might also look at
http://www.av8.net/IETF-watch/People/JohnLevine/index.html
Levine, long head of the Anti-spam Research Group, was also unmasked
as
a spammer.
Fred Baker <f...@cisco.com> is on the ISC Board of Trustees, and is a
Vixie supportor.
--Dean
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Quinn Mahoney wrote:
I'm looking to implement the Spamhaus drop list.
http://www.spamhaus.org/drop/index.lasso
On their FAQ they have a script that looks like it grabs the lists
text
file and connects to a given router, and tells you what has changed
in
the list, and what your router is null routing. I'm not sure if it
then
removes the null routes if a list entry has been removed. I haven't
found much documentation on the net regarding this. In the future it
looks like you will be able to peer with them and null route traffic
from a private AS, which will be routes from the drop list. Right
now
though, it looks like you'd have to update an ACL manually for any
changes to the list. Or use this script which null routes the
traffic
(I guess it's not a big deal getting the syn packets, as long as the
mail won't send because of the null route). I am not sure if this
script updates the null routes automatically, or how to use it, I
can't
find to much documentation.
Any documentation on this script or another script available. What
are
your suggestions?
thanks
--
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