Hi all:) first of all, thank you so much Dalibor, what you do is truly amazing; much like everyone that has heard of you and your work, I'm really grateful for what you have brought to this great community. I hope in time to come, you can successfully expand this market and attract many more customers. There are definitely potential markets waiting for you in the emerging countries, especially when the "age of analog" is picking up pace in the new generation. Think turntables, instant cameras, Moleskine notebooks. (On this topic this bestselling book called " the revenge of analog" by David Sax, is great).
Also to JohnK and neonjohn, I must thank you for opening me to the realities of real world manufacturing. I never really understood the difficulties that come with such manufacturing feats. I really do have a lot of ground to cover:D From what you guys have said, I understand that my approach is fundamentally flawed. (doing market research first before thinking about manufacturing feasibility.) Anyways, I still believe it's doable to bring the nixie tubes into mainstream society:) On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 12:41 AM, chuck richards <chuc...@all2easy.net> wrote: > Dalibor, > > Thanks again for all that you do. > > You obviously have devoted your whole life for the past several > years to the manufacturing of high-quality brand new large nixie > tubes. > > There will always be some folks on the side-lines who want to > talk about and to theorize about "better" and "cheaper" methods > of tube production. > > Not bloody likely!! > > What you have accomplished is most remarkable! > > I especially like reading the part where you explain that > computers and automation don't help much. > > That is a fact that people who have never tried any production > methods will argue with. But, as you point out, once one actually > does their experiments and starts learning how to get it done, one > will find that computers and automation just can't cope with the > entire situation very well at all. > > Again, congratulations to you and your entire team of dedicated > people! > > Chuck > > > > > > > > >---- Original Message ---- > >From: dali...@farny.cz > >To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com > >Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new > >nixie tubes > >Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:16:33 -0700 (PDT) > > > >>Hello! > >> > >>I am sending few notes to this topic, from a perspective of someone > >who > >>spent last 5 years exclusively in nixie tubes manufacture ;-) > >> > >>IMHO, $25 nixie tube is not possible. Nixie tubes were never so > >cheap, even > >>in 60s, the less expensive tube from Burroughs was for $8 (equal to > >today's > >>$64) when bought in a quantity of 1000pcs, type B-5016, no mercury. > >Large > >>tube (B-7094) were for $30 (today's $240). In this time, the nixie > >tubes > >>were cutting edge technology with generous budget, hoard of R&D > >engineers > >>and whole tube backing industry. They were produced in large > >quantities for > >>lot of equipment, mostly measuring devices - almost never for > >digital > >>clocks, they were simply expensive for consumer market. > >>You can now find small tubes on eBay for around $5, mostly russian > >tubes - > >>their price is now determined by market (what are hobbyists willing > >to pay > >>for it), not manufacturing costs. They were produced in large > >volumes in > >>soviet central planned economy, even when the demand was decreasing > >- this > >>is why there are still full stocks of them in former soviet > >countries. > >> > >>You mention "current manufacturing methods", we actually dont have > >much new > >>technologies which could simplify the nixie tube manufacture. The > >use of > >>computers is very limited and doesnt help much. Also new > >technologies like > >>laser cutting etc. doesnt help (only for machinery construction, > >jigs..). > >>There are tens of operations involved in the > >assembly/sealing/pumping > >>procedures - the quantity of machines needed for automated line > >would be > >>big and their price very high. As NeonJohn suggested - few $M would > >be > >>necessary just for the machinery. You would also soon find that > >automation > >>make demands on supplier's tolerances ( e.g. glass thickness, > >diameter) > >>which is beyond their standard production capabilities = back to > >hand > >>processing.. This is one of the reason why large factories like > >Blackburn > >>had own facilities for production of all the raw materials/prefabs. > >>Last year, I had a meeting with people from german company producing > > > >>glassworking machines - simple semiautomated machine just for > >sealing > >>operation (stem/envelope) which still needs operator starts at > >$250.000 and > >>its production capacity is not so high (my estimation was 30 > >tubes/hour). > >>And this is one of very few pieces of equipment you can purchase, > >the rest > >>is necessary to develop - according to your specifications and > >process > >>description. > >> > >>But even if you had a fully equiped factory now, it would take you > >long > >>time to get to working nixie tubes. It is not about machines, but > >about the > >>operator/R&D - you need to know when the tube is sufficiently > >degassed > >>before filling, what purity of the raw material is necessary, purity > >of the > >>gases, time for aging etc.. Many factors, each of them can make your > >tube > >>prone to failure. Not immediately, but after year of operation for > >instance > >>- your backers will not wait years until you come up with working > >>combination.. > >> > >>Some data from our business: > >>- Our price for a tube is now set to $145. > >>- We make around 130 tubes per month (+ handful of clocks) with > >monthly > >>revenue of around 20.000 USD. > >>- We are now a team of 5 people and this production volume makes us > >really > >>busy (I work 7 days a week, all day long). > >>- We need 250 square meters (2700sqft) of space for our current > >equipment. > >>- As for the "butique price" - my monthly net salary is $384, I get > >paid > >>since February 2017 ;-) But my people's salary is above average (for > >a > >>given profession and our region). > >>- I invested around $80.000 from my personal savings on the > >beginning > >> > >>I know that if I want to really succeed and earn money, I need to > >cut down > >>the production costs. So I am step by step making our manufacture > >efficient > >>with the intention to make our nixie tubes less expensive one day. I > >am > >>investing our profit back to tooling/equipment, I am for example > >working on > >>a high vacuum rotary manifold for carousel pumping machine with > >higher > >>production capacity. I recently reverse-engineered Philips vacuum > >locking > >>mechanism (tube clamping) for the same machine. But I am not sure if > >it is > >>possible to make nixie tubes for below $60-80 even with high level > >of > >>automation. > >> > >>I hope it doesnt sound too discouraging ;-) just my $0.02 > >> > >>best regards, > >> > >>Dalibor Farny > >> > >> > >>On Wednesday, 19 April 2017 11:52:06 UTC+2, Aiden Koh wrote: > >>> > >>> I'm a product engineer taking on a new project. > >>> With current manufacturing methods, I'm able to manufacture > >In-18/Z568M > >>> inspired nixie tubes, at a fraction of their market costs (sub 25 > >USD/pc). > >>> I don't compromise on quality. hence, it will be built with parts > >mostly > >>> sourced from the US, and have the quality management system > >ISO-certified. > >>> > >>> However, due to overhead costs, such a price is only available if > >the > >>> minimum demand for said tubes is reached. Hence I can only > >commence with > >>> the project when I know that there is enough interest. > >>> > >>> What are your thoughts? Would it interest you if such tubes exist? > >show > >>> your support, and large, affordable nixie tubes may finally be > >within our > >>> grasp! > >>> > >> > >>-- > >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >Groups "neonixie-l" group. > >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > >>To view this discussion on the web, visit > >https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/7b6b98ca-36c7-42e5-a93f- > >9099a6830ca6%40googlegroups.com. > >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >> > > > > $4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. > 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See > http://www.All2Easy.net for more details! > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > topic/neonixie-l/Dgw6e3K8uOc/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > msgid/neonixie-l/380-220174521164119911%40all2easy.net. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. 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