Hi Max

To me its not a PSU problem as it is one one axis only. The deflection amplifiers are identical and swapping their X and Y inputs shows they are not the problem.

It seems to me that the problem is back in the DACs or the code, that the X DAC (originally) is drawing the image in one position and then drawing it displaced slightly in another, perhaps one refresh later.

If you try your scope in XY mode, then I find the images are not very good on digital scopes or at least the cheap ones I have access to :^( I have an old analogue CRT based scope for when the (cheap) digital one struggles.

Grahame

On 27/08/2023 12:35, Max DN wrote:
Hi Grahame,

Those are the images that I actually see with my eyes, the camera is capturing it as I see it.

Nothing changes when I rotate the tube, only the X-Y centers seem to move, which is fine and it's easily adjusted. I tried  shielding the CRT, no change. No other magnetic fields that I can tell other than earth. I switched X and Y DAC output pins from the code, the issue persists (picture transposed and issue is vertical as opposed to horizontal, 3rd picture bottom right of the photo attached).

I didn't occur to me that the oscilloscope has an XY-mode. I tried but cannot tell for sure if the DAC outputs are ok, perhaps I don't know how to get a crisp picture on the oscilloscope (I'll look the manual).

I am using a switching power supply to feed the whole circuit and the Teensy is receiving a +5 from a rectified output of the same transformer that also provides +250VDC to a multiplier chain. If the issue was badly filtered power, I should see a very noisy picture, I'd assume. Instead of two sharp pictures almost overlapping. Somehow how don't seem to be able to balance focus vs astigmatism.
Il giorno domenica 27 agosto 2023 alle 10:42:38 UTC+1 Grahame ha scritto:

    Hi

    Is that image of the face - showing the image offset twice in the
    X direction only - what you see with your eyes or is it a camera
    artefact?

    If it is real, what happens when you rotate the tube?

    It is interesting that it seems to occur in the X direction only.
    If you feed the X and Y data from the DACs into a scope in XY mode
    do you see a good image or this offset one.

    Do you have any strong alternating magnetic fields near by?
    example soldering iron base station...

    Grahame

    On 27/08/2023 01:31, Max DN wrote:
    Ok, I'm back. Been busy with work.

    I managed to purchase a Teensy 3.6 and I have the scope clock
    running. For some reason, I am not able to get a crisp picture,
    no matter how much I try to balance focus vs astigmatism vs
    brightness.

    Could it be that my hand-wound transformer is creating some
    noise? It's quite a complex transformer (at least for me). I
    guess I could check the voltages with the oscilloscope but I
    worry that I accidentally put 1200V on the oscilloscope.  I'm
    using the schematic published by David at Cathode Corner, I built
    the transformer by trial and error. For the heather I'm using a
    stabilised 6.4VDC using a buck-converter, which I thought should
    help, but no!

    Any suggestions on how to stability the picture? Attached a
    couple of photos.

    Il giorno lunedì 10 luglio 2023 alle 16:54:15 UTC+1 gregebert ha
    scritto:

        Sounds like the CRT-related stuff is fine (congratulations,
        BTW), and you have issues with the DAC. Have you checked the
        linearity of the DAC ? The best way to start is to run all
        DAC codes, starting from 0 and incrementing to the top, and
        verify the waveform is a stair-step. I suggest leaving each
        value for about 10usec to allow more than enough time for the
        DAC and amplifiers to settle. Which DAC are you using ? My
        only experience is with 8-bit parallel-input DACs, and I had
        no problems with it (ADCs, on the other hand, are a different
        story....). If you see erratic behavior, post the findings
        and we can figure out next steps.

        If the DAC is operating correctly, then my first suspect is
        the range/offset of your DAC. You might not be able to drive
        it rail-to-rail due to the design of the
        level-shifters/deflection amps. In that case, try to
        narrow-down the range where the DAC is driving the CRT
        as-expected.

        On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 3:42:21 AM UTC-7 Max Di Noi wrote:

            Hey, Adrian, let me knew if you find that Teensy 3.6.


            I'm not having much luck with a teensy 4.1 + external DAC
            using SPI. Nor I can see any issues at all in the code.
            The connections are simple enough but it cannot draw a
            circle (as a test) on my CRT using the open source code
            that Cathode Corner published. Indeed, when I test the
            DAC output on the oscilloscope looks irregular, whereas
            the SPI lines seems to behave as expected. Odd.

            If I input two sine waves into the deflection amplifiers
            using my signal generator, then I can get a circle on the
            CRT, that proves that power supply, level shifters and
            deflection amplifiers should be fine.

            -------- Original message --------
            From: Adrian Godwin <artg...@gmail.com>
            Date: 10/06/2023 17:17 (GMT+00:00)
            To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
            Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

            I think I have an unused teensy 3.6.
            It may take some time to track it down but I'd happily
            swap it for a 4.1 if that simplifies things for you.

            On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 5:03 PM David Forbes
            <nixie...@gmail.com> wrote:

                Here is the schematic of the SCTV rev E, which uses
                the Teensy 4.1.


                On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Max Di Noi
                <flata...@gmail.com> wrote:

                    Thanks for your prompt reply David.

                    I have already printed my board for a Teensy 3.6.
                    I have no issues soldering tiny smd components
                    assuming that I can get an LTC22632! I may design
                    a small PCB to super-impose the Teensy 4.1 over
                    the existing footprint and layout. In doing so, I
                    could add the dual DAC on this new adapter board.
                    I can see CS is connected to pin10 but where are
                    CLK and SDI of the LTC2632 connected? I don’t see
                    them in the code. Yes, It would be great if you
                    could post diagram for SCTV-E for Teensy 4.1 please.

                    Interesting that you are redesigning the
                    transformer. I managed to hand-wire mine and
                    seems to work well. The 6.3V for the heater is
                    the one that I’m not too sure how to calibrate
                    exactly, since the SMPS… It shines a bit too
                    bright at the moment and voltage drops to 2V, so
                    that’s not healthy for the heater filament. I can
                    remove a few turns but not sure what is the
                    ‘exact’ RMS V I’m looking for given the spikes of
                    the SMPS at 100Khz, I’ll continue to experiment
                    on that using a 6.2V 500mA lightbulb to avoid
                    damaging the CRT.

                    Thanks again for updating the schematic when you
                    get a chance, it’ll save me so much time to
                    experiment.



                    On 10 Jun 2023, at 16:41, David Forbes
                    <nixie...@gmail.com> wrote:

                    Hi. The SCTV with the Teensy 4.0 uses an LTC2632
                    dual DAC. This uses SPI to load the X and Y
                    values. It's about half the update rate of the
                    built-in DACs in the previous Teensy 3.6, so I
                    had to change the step size in the drawing
                    routines.
                    Unfortunately this chip is tiny, so it's hard to
                    solder.
                    I am in the process of redesigning the
                    transformer and circuit board to be more
                    friendly for kit and DIY use. I want to make the
                    PC board with through hole parts, since people
                    enjoy soldering those together.
                    I will see if I can post the latest SCTV
                    schematic diagram to my website today. I've been
                    traveling a lot lately.


                    On Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 6:33 AM Max DN
                    <flata...@gmail.com> wrote:

                        True, but the schematic is SCTV rev. C which
                        is for Teensy 3.6. Does anyone have the
                        schematic for using Teensy 4.1? Just
                        designed a clock based on SCTV-rev and
                        custom transformer but of course I have now
                        realised that Teensy 3.6 is impossible to get...

                        Il giorno sabato 11 marzo 2023 alle 18:41:05
                        UTC SD ha scritto:

                            David Forbes has the schematic on his
                            website, and the firmware on Github.  I
                            did not see that Jörg was making kits,
                            in fact he said he didn't want to make
                            kits, but perhaps make a PCB available,
                            so I do not know why people are asking
                            for kits.

                            On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 3:42:49 PM
                            UTC-5 liam bartosiewicz wrote:

                                The schematic and software would be
                                good enough for me, personally

                                On Mar 10, 2023, at 10:15 AM,
                                Darrin Weiss <hip...@gmail.com> wrote:

                                I also have some interest in a kit


                                On Friday, March 10, 2023 at
                                10:00:11 AM UTC-5 Richard Arndt wrote:

                                    Yep... put me down too for a
                                    Scope Clock kit of parts :-)
                                    Making the H/W & S/W open
                                    source would be cool too!

                                    I think selling PCB's & parts
                                    in kit form without enclosure,
                                    places FCC requirements on the
                                    user to not cause RF interference.

                                    Isn't that how SparkFun and
                                    Adafruit can sell assembled
                                    PCBs without FCC certification?

                                    On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at
                                    9:19:56 AM UTC-5 Paul Andrews
                                    wrote:

                                        Do you plan on publishing
                                        the software (on GitHub for
                                        example)?

                                        On Mar 8, 2023, at 5:36
                                        PM, jörg
                                        <pos...@gmail.com> wrote:

                                        
                                        The tube is a RFT B7 S4-01
                                        It‘s from an EO174A
                                        Oscilloscope.
                                        Nice green and pretty good
                                        to focus and linearity to
                                        the edges.
                                        The tube and first version
                                        of PCB could be viewed at
                                        
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTyXJE2faXw
                                        
<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DzTyXJE2faXw&data=05%7C01%7Cjoerg.postert%40otto.de%7C934c425d99ee4b01af7008db202467fd%7C8794e153c3bd44798bea61aeaf167d5a%7C0%7C0%7C638139112953496744%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7yQJJjU6SCFcfQu%2BVxKoA8R9%2B%2FrsA1AVJOuO76nxNq8%3D&reserved=0>

                                        I do not plan a kit or
                                        selling like david forbes do.
                                        First of all, it is
                                        initially his design and
                                        software. Second, I do not
                                        have the will and time to
                                        go through all the
                                        regulations EU/Germany has
                                        for selling such electronics.
                                        I could share the PCB if I
                                        order the next batch, but
                                        it is not finished, yet.
                                        I plan to add ESP32 for
                                        NTP and web config.


                                        On Sunday, March 5, 2023
                                        at 8:02:28 PM UTC+1
                                        Nicholas Stock wrote:

                                            Definitely not
                                            off-topic! I think
                                            everyone on this forum
                                            appreciates that post,
                                            well done. I really
                                            like the starfield
                                            effect. What tube were
                                            you using? Looks like
                                            it has very good
                                            linearity across the
                                            whole screen....

                                            Cheers,

                                            Nick

                                            On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at
                                            11:55 PM Wo Tu
                                            <wtu...@gmail.com> wrote:

                                                Hi !
                                                Really interesting
                                                and great work.
                                                Looks really good
                                                and its a „want to
                                                have“.
                                                Would be
                                                interested in pcb
                                                and code too , if
                                                possible a kit too.
                                                Thank you.

                                                Michail Wilson
                                                schrieb am
                                                Samstag, 4. März
                                                2023 um 15:11:01
                                                UTC+1:

                                                    I am very
                                                    interested as
                                                    well.

                                                    Would love to
                                                    have the code
                                                    and pcb design
                                                    and even a kit.

                                                    I read through
                                                    the posts, but
                                                    didn’t see
                                                    anything other
                                                    than the
                                                    video. Thumbs
                                                    up on it too. 😊

                                                    Michail Wilson

                                                    206-920-6312
                                                    <tel:(206)%20920-6312>

                                                    *From:*
                                                    neoni...@googlegroups.com
                                                    <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
                                                    *On Behalf Of
                                                    *jörg
                                                    *Sent:*
                                                    Saturday,
                                                    March 4, 2023
                                                    7:14 AM
                                                    *To:*
                                                    neonixie-l
                                                    <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
                                                    *Subject:* Re:
                                                    [neonixie-l]
                                                    ScopeClock
                                                    with teensy4.0

                                                    @Jon,


                                                    yes, I will
                                                    share the
                                                    code. I have
                                                    moved it to
                                                    the VS Code
                                                    IDE with
                                                    PlatformIO. I
                                                    do not like
                                                    the Arduino
                                                    IDE much. It
                                                    should run on
                                                    david's
                                                    hardware, too.
                                                    Do yo you have
                                                    build the
                                                    hardware already?

                                                    On Friday,
                                                    March 3, 2023
                                                    at 5:12:46 AM
                                                    UTC+1 David
                                                    Forbes wrote:

                                                        I was able
                                                        to change
                                                        to a
                                                        Teensy 4.1
                                                        with a 2
                                                        channel 12
                                                        bit SPI
                                                        DAC in my
                                                        latest
                                                        version. I
                                                        had to
                                                        reduce the
                                                        DAC rate
                                                        by half.
                                                        It looks
                                                        just as
                                                        good as
                                                        the old
                                                        version.
                                                        Of course,
                                                        the DAC I
                                                        chise is
                                                        already
                                                        unobtanium.

                                                        On Thu,
                                                        Mar 2,
                                                        2023, 7:17
                                                        AM jörg
                                                        <pos...@gmail.com>
                                                        wrote:

                                                            Hi,
                                                            maybe
                                                            a bit
                                                            offtopic.

                                                            I've
                                                            put
                                                            some
                                                            effort
                                                            in
                                                            using
                                                            the
                                                            teensy4.x
                                                            to run
                                                            the
                                                            scope
                                                            clock
                                                            based
                                                            on
                                                            david
                                                            forbes
                                                            one.
                                                            The
                                                            teensy3.6
                                                            based
                                                            one is
                                                            running
                                                            on my
                                                            own
                                                            hardware
                                                            for a
                                                            while.

                                                            But
                                                            because
                                                            of CPU
                                                            shortage
                                                            and
                                                            the
                                                            use of
                                                            the
                                                            teensy3.6
                                                            internal
                                                            DAC's,
                                                            I was
                                                            curious
                                                            to get
                                                            the
                                                            stuff
                                                            up and
                                                            running
                                                            on the
                                                            faster
                                                            teensy
                                                            4.x CPU.
                                                            In
                                                            this
                                                            approach
                                                            I'm
                                                            using
                                                            a
                                                            parallel
                                                            driven
                                                            12 bit
                                                            4
                                                            channels
                                                            DAC.
                                                            The
                                                            usage
                                                            of a
                                                            serial
                                                            DAC
                                                            was
                                                            too
                                                            slow
                                                            and I
                                                            did
                                                            not
                                                            get
                                                            DMA up
                                                            and
                                                            running
                                                            on
                                                            teensy4.x.
                                                            Anyway,
                                                            this
                                                            works
                                                            and I
                                                            like it.

                                                            Video:
                                                            
https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw


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