I really appreciate these replies; I've been reading and watching far too much rhetoric. The BBC, for us, is nothing like Fox news; at least in their reportage on U.S. affair, BBC Int'l is the best televised source we have. And I do a lot of news watching. The replies you sent explain a lot; the surface - what we're seeing here in Parliament (where there are long broadcasts on BBC) is constant innuendo and repetition, almost magical repetition, as if doing so would make it so; the interviews are often with splinter groups which just confuse the thing. The dates confuse the thing. I love Britain, not saying this lightly, and one of the odd things for me (and Azure) is the intelligence of all the noise - it's so much more intelligent than the noise here in the U.S. which so often amounts to hatred, anti-intellectualism, religion, and bullying. And this isn't just minority behavior - it's increasingly dominating. As a Jew, I can say we're dragged into it with the Jewish/Israel craziness - over and over again the news has to insist that all Jews don't support Israel - but the repetition serves otherwise. It's a real problem for the Democrats at this point... (For myself, the last time I was in Israel was a half century ago and I was horrified at that point w/ what was going on, on all sides, and swore never to return; if anything, I sided with the Arab population.) It's a frightening time... Apologies for going on so long and it's late here; we have a guest and have been working on writing tonight.
Thank you!, Alan On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 2:37 PM Edward Picot via NetBehaviour < netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote: > Both parties are paralysed by the fact that amongst their grassroots > membership are big numbers who voted "leave", for whatever reasons, and who > would be infuriated and feel betrayed if there was another referendum: > they'd see it as the metropolitan intelligentsia and the upper middle > classes refusing to accept the outcome of the first referendum, because it > didn't go the way they wanted. The equivalent, in other words, of > dissolving the people and electing another. > > Of course it's not that simple. The "leave" campaign was a tissue of > atrocious lies and covert appeals to things like patriotism and racism. It > was the old outvoting the young, and the have-nots outvoting the haves. It > was about fear of outsiders, but it also expressed a revulsion against > established politics and big faceless organisations of any description. It > gave people a chance to kick out, and they took it. It sold them an > illusion of taking "back" control of their own lives and destinies, as if > they'd ever really had that control in the first place. > > At the moment I'm not at all sure whether we're going to end up with > another referendum or a no-deal scenario. There's a small but powerful > group of hard-liners, especially right-wing hard-liners in the Tory party, > who regard "crashing out" as the best possible outcome, and who are trying > to scupper everything else so that the no-deal scenario comes into being by > default. It's a bit scary. > > I'm no fan of Europe - I agree with what Julian says about the European > Commission. But the big questions with which we should be grappling are > about the environment, and from that point of view I think we need a united > Europe rather than a divided one. The worst thing about this whole Brexit > mess is that it's distracting us from the things we really ought to be > focussed on, and at the same time it's demonstrating more and more clearly > how horribly inadequate the Parliamentary system is, as a means of dealing > with anything that requires a bit of applied intelligence. > > Edward > > > On 12/03/2019 17:49, Julian Brooks wrote: > > One take, amongst many no doubt: > It's a bloody disaster (basically) - economically, culturally, > psychologically. Any-ology. > While there's a very strong argument that the European Commission is not > much more than the lapdog of hypercapital, the European Union is a > wonderful thing and I am still in shock that we appear to be leaving (& > maybe even taking this grand experiment down with us). > > Nonetheless there's some heavy politics plating itself out today, and the > opposition (Labour really) were last week very clear to let the Tories > destroy themselves, distraction free. > > There's been growing momentum for a final Peoples Vote on either May's > deal or Remain - this scenario looks likelier by the moment. I would also > still presume that if an election is called, both Labour and Conservative > will still call for Brexit. > > This whole shitshow is a way off being resolved IMO - and tbh I don't > think we can ever go back. Equally, many of our Euro partners are very > understandably heartily sick of us as a nation. And who can blame them, I > feel the same. > > My €2 anyhow... > > Julian > > P.S. The BBC is sadly not a news org anymore, they only deal in propaganda > (think Fox w. Manners:) > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On 12 Mar 2019 17:22, Alan Sondheim < sondh...@panix.com> wrote: > > > > I've been watching Brexit debates in Parliament on and off for months and > months and have some questions here - > > The main being why another referendum isn't being called. Parliament's in > a mess; Brexit's already losing money and will lose research and cultural > possibilities as well. It also seems that the public didn't really > understand the issues at the time of the referendum - and that most people > don't understand them now. > > How does this work with DIWO? > > These questions might seem naive, but I'd like to hear what the arts etc. > communities - what any communities - are thinking about this. How does > this effect small towns? Women? Cultural exchanges? Are artists involved > in protesting one way or another? It seems from the outside that a second > referendum is in order - is there any call for this from cultural > institutions? Apologies for naivete here; most of the information we get > from BBC is from parliamentary debates or talking heads on CNN... > > Thanks, Alan > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing > listNetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.orghttps://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > -- *=====================================================* *directory http://www.alansondheim.org <http://www.alansondheim.org> tel 718-813-3285**email sondheim ut panix.com <http://panix.com>, sondheim ut gmail.com <http://gmail.com>* *=====================================================*
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