grammar wasn't invented (except of course for computer and other artificial languages like Esperanto); it might have been codified after the fact (Panini's Sanskrit being my favorite example, since his grammar is actually a form of computer programming at least two thousand years old). And learning, teaching, or being taught - in various ways every organism does this. The world is momentary structures that have always already been with us in a sense -
Best!, Alan On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:39 PM Max Herman via NetBehaviour < netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote: > > Good point! > > Maybe, "being, unfolding, making explicate > Grammar on the fly, with no thought yet > Of learning, teaching, or being taught > All kin, earliest folk, all groups greater than one > Since the first cell and first particle"? > > It's a hardscrabble gleaning sometimes; > More when my leaves are falling like its own! > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan Sondheim <sondh...@panix.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 27, 2019 6:07 PM > *To:* Max Herman via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> > *Cc:* Max Herman <maxnmher...@hotmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets > > > > love this, only wanted to say that there was always already grammar, > always already structure to being in the world, not " Early folk creating > grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being taught it. " > we were never, none of us in the world, nor animals, nor any, creating > grammar that way; I remember Heinz von Foerster describing culture > beginning with negation, even amoeba have culture, have that - > > Best!, Alan > > On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, Max Herman via NetBehaviour wrote: > > > > > Take a pebble for instance, an item, > > One of the few and many that can be picked up by hand. > > Some are like this. > > Some can also be instruments, sticks or stones, alongside the immovable > > base-grounds. > > Hence thou hast compositions, counting, forms, names, phrases, and such. > > Early folk creating grammar on the fly, far from learning it or being > taught > > it. > > What counts the quiet though, the quietus? > > There can be no count without that, no seeing, not even any hearing. > > Well the breathing counts it, says the brain. > > Imagine all paint and no canvas! > > You lose track of your sons. > > Were they ever even yours, oh fleet of foot? > > Wild turkeys cross the streets coolly around here, > > Up from the Mississippi, > > And I thank them daily for it. > > More than one story-set or circle of the world > > Calls life breath, the one and the all > > An old-time bellows or mill that moves particles > > Like Da Vinci drew > > Each pebble a point and a pointer, if marked, > > And of course a black square. > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > From: NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-boun...@lists.netbehaviour.org> on > behalf > > of Alan Sondheim <sondh...@panix.com> > > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 6:11 PM > > To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity > > <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> > > Subject: [NetBehaviour] Goddess of Storms and Alphabets > > > > > > Goddess of Storms and Alphabets > > > > http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030727.jpg > > http://www.alansondheim.org/P1030738.JPG > > > > I'm not sure how language would begin, not sure how language would > > be recorded as a gesture accompanied by a sound. Sure to be sounds > > accompanying gestures that hardened, somewhen into a signal or > > call, somehow a meaning. The sounds were ghostings, heard over the > > hill around the hill in the forest across the stream behind the > > rocks above the cliffs within the caves, the gestures were bodies, > > the bodies were breathing, there were two directions, into the > > lungs, out from the lungs. There were swirls and whirlwinds and the > > world breathed and was given body and bodies. It was cool to hear a > > knowledge from one who was knowing, invisible, elsewhere. There > > were cries too from the woundings, there were disappearances of > > familiar voices from leaving and dying which returned in memories > > and dreams made real with them, the waking in the night, the > > weeping and ululations. The world was enormous and narrow and all > > around and the same for many comings and goings for weeks and > > months at a time, or just a vision around the boulder surface or > > from the sky when things moved there, as they always did. The world > > was always different than the world, and always new and old, and > > always the world. The murmuring of the world was everywhere and > > everywhen and when that became language and accountancy, everything > > moved away, quietly, until distance itself became unfathomable, > > unknown even in its familiarity. Sure to be sounds, sure to be. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NetBehaviour mailing list > > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org > > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > > > > web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552 > current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wj.txt > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > -- *=====================================================* *directory http://www.alansondheim.org <http://www.alansondheim.org> tel 718-813-3285**email sondheim ut panix.com <http://panix.com>, sondheim ut gmail.com <http://gmail.com>* *=====================================================*
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