Hi Paul & all, I agree with your points, plus what also came alongside net art and media art culture was (still is) an independence threatening the heirachies, infrastructures and protocols of the mainstream gallery system, and a critique of its reliance on the markets as the main motive to justify arts existence.
Post-Internet art actively accepts the markets. It is also a way in for those who may not necessarily be aware of media art's history. And, it's also a way for those media artists who wish to escape the burden of dealing with critical and ethical responsibility being linked to their art; which frees them up in a sense to be readily accepted by the art market and mainstream art institutions. wishing you well. marc On 30 September 2015 at 15:39, Pall Thayer <pallt...@gmail.com> wrote: > Fascinating read. On gallery and museum embrace of post-internet art, I > think there are two things going on. First of all, it's new and it's > acceptance in galleries and museums is probably not much greater than > internet art's acceptance was when it was new. Second of all, most of it > takes forms which galleries and museums are familiar with, i.e. physical > objects, prints, videos, etc. This is a far more attractive fit for > commercial art galleries and doesn't pose any significant archiving issues > for museums. At least, not ones that they haven't encountered before. > > Pall > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:26 AM marc garrett <marc.garre...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Paul, Dave, Annie & all, >> >> Regarding Geert's interview -- I actually agree with most of what he >> says. In fact, I tend to agree with most of his ideas and writings. >> >> I think as a group, we're in tune (usually coincidentally with his >> reflections) but, living through them within a grounded context, which is >> of our everyday life experience and as part of surviving as an artist led >> group in a neoliberalist dominated culture. >> >> The audience he's talking to is an e-flux audience, and I think e-flux >> are part of an neoliberalist, elite establishment, so it's positive he is >> discussing these issues to its audience. >> >> Although, Paul has mentioned already things have been getting better and >> there is evidence of things gettign better. I would say that's true in some >> ways, but it may also be true that some of us have got older and into power >> and so able to support media art and net art more these days. And before >> this was not the case ;-) >> >> Wishing you well. >> >> >> marc >> >> >> On 30 September 2015 at 14:07, Paul Hertz <igno...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Well, happy to post polemics, it's a kind of a hobby. :^}. >>> >>> I think there has been a tendency for mainstream curators to approach >>> more recent digitally-mediated works as if they were in effect a sort of >>> hybrid old media, while still neglecting both historical and current "pure" >>> digital media. This has meant that certain kinds of digital hard copy >>> (modded photographic prints, collage and drawings, and even 3D printing == >>> "post-digital") can be welcomed while the internet as a platform is >>> generally ignored. I don't have any more evidence for this than >>> observation, and I have felt that the situation for digital art was >>> improving over the last ten years. OTOH, I can readily understand the >>> impatience. >>> >>> -- Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 7:56 AM, dave miller <dave.miller...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I think Geert is probably correct though - seems to me the art >>>> "establishment" aren't interested in internet/ digital art, though maybe >>>> they have a different view of it from us on here. The art world remains a >>>> mystery to me, so I may well be wrong. Thank god for Furtherfield, and I >>>> would love to know who are the curators 'not' scared of it. >>>> >>>> What's the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon? >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> On 30 September 2015 at 13:48, Annie Abrahams <bram....@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> don't be small, don't think sectarism >>>>> Geert is closer to "us" than most "others" >>>>> get in contact with him, explain and connect, use his critical energy >>>>> >>>>> invite him to curate, to build, to discuss >>>>> >>>>> xxx >>>>> Annie >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:40 PM, NIKOS V <nikos...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I see the relevance in this approach, allthough I have to say its >>>>>> allready to late for that criticism no? >>>>>> >>>>>> Moreover, is he really interested in art? >>>>>> >>>>>> If yes, as Marc says, where are the references and the names ? >>>>>> >>>>>> And why is Venice Biennial important?To whom???? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2015-09-30 15:36 GMT+03:00 marc.garrett < >>>>>> marc.garr...@furtherfield.org>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Paul, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Geert needs to be more specific and highlight the curators who are >>>>>>> 'not' scared and who have been showing technical artwork such as >>>>>>> Furtherifeld & others - his words are not grounded and are too absolute, >>>>>>> they do not reflect reality... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> marc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://conversations.e-flux.com/t/geert-lovink-on-social-media-and-the-arts/2581 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "The absence at the 2015 Venice Bienale of digital arts and internet >>>>>>> works says it all. Curators are afraid to admit they are clueless and >>>>>>> continue their ignorant attitude towards art that deals with the >>>>>>> digital in >>>>>>> a direct matter (while checking their smart phone). Everyone jumps on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> ‘post-digital’ bandwagon because that’s cute and safe. [...] Curators >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> critics are more than happy to embrace the race, gender, even the >>>>>>> anthroposcene (whatever that is), but are blind for the techno-politics >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the equipment and media they are using themselves so intensely. The >>>>>>> contradictions are becoming absurd. Video was the last technology they >>>>>>> had >>>>>>> to deal with, but then it stopped." >>>>>>> — Geert Lovink >>>>>>> >>>>>>> // >>>>>>> >>>>>>> enjoy, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- >>>>>>> http://paulhertz.net/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing >>>>>>> listNetBehaviour@netbehaviour.orghttp://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> *26 09 14h* *vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger*, une >>>>> *conférence performéefestival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue >>>>> <http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de >>>>> Prunet, Montpellier >>>>> >>>>> aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *besides, *online performances *On Object Agency * >>>>> with Martina Ruhsam >>>>> *archives* (text, script, video, images) >>>>> bram.org/besides/ >>>>> *Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on >>>>> *Furtherfield* >>>>> >>>>> furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams >>>>> <http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams> >>>>> <https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/08/13/ed-atkins-remediating/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <http://turbulence.org/commissions/besides/> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- >>> http://paulhertz.net/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > -- > P Thayer, Artist > http://pallthayer.dyndns.org > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >
_______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
