So, what you say comes down to the point that it should be done on the
customers' premises and not in the ISP's network... If you extend this
philosophy a bit further to the end users, we'd live in a heavenly
internetworks :-) But...

Ramin

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 10:36:23AM -0600, Daniel F. Chief Security Engineer - wrote:

> I do not know how many of you also subscribe to NANOG, but they covered this 
> topic in detail a few months ago. The problem is there is not a router 
> capable of filtering at line speed above OC3 speeds, is what alot of admins 
> were saying. So you have to do this where you can. I personally do it on the 
> firewalls before it ever gets to my Edge router as we have a couple of OC3's 
> and it can have a real effect on the router to have an access list on a link 
> pushing 100+ Mbs. 
> 
> As for specifics on what Im doing. 
> 
> For instance I block UDP inbound/outbound to port 80. and send a port 
> unreachable if someone tries this. However it would be a simple thing for 
> someone off my network to abuse this so you have to make sure you put a limit 
> on the number of packets you send for the outbound packets. Or someone could 
> use your firewall to hit someone else with a ton of ICMP packets all it would 
> take is a spoofed UDP flood. : ) 
> 
> Since we are a large ISP/Webhosting company I try to do every thing I can to 
> be a good net citizen. 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> On Monday 25 March 2002 07:46 pm, Ramin Alidousti wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:30:46PM -0800, Rob Finneran wrote:
> > > Good topic.
> > >
> > > I've read a CERT that states that ISP should practice being good net
> > > citizen by not allowing packets with spoofed IP addresses to leave there
> > > networks.
> >
> > It's easier said than done. First of all, it should be done on the edge,
> > otherwise a transit network cannot distinguish between a spoofed or a
> > valid transit packet; secondly just imagine what the impact would be to
> > filter on oc12 or 48 or even 192 interfaces... Another point is that not
> > all spoofed packets are from different ISP's or even segments of an ISP, so
> > there is still possibility for a spoofer to spoof...
> >
> > But in general, I agree, spoofed packets should get identified and dropped
> > as early as possible, ideally on the very first hop.
> >
> > Ramin
> >
> > > Maybe I'm a little naive, but if everyone did this, wouldn't this prevent
> > > the majority of hack attacks?
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel F. Chief
> > > Security Engineer -
> > > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 2:31 PM
> > > To: Netfilter - Mail list
> > > Subject: Being a good netezen, with iptables.
> > >
> > >
> > > This may be more philosophical than technical.
> > >
> > > I have several gateway firewalls using iptables : )
> > >
> > > Big ones each one can see at peak around 100+ Mbs. I have many rules for
> > > ports that are filtered to REJECT with am ICMP port or host unreachable.
> > > From
> > > time to time I get e-mails from other _admins_ saying "Your IP
> > > xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx  is attacking us" some of them include packet logs
> > > showing the ICMP packets coming from my firewall. So basically I tell
> > > them to check out their own system as I know my firewalls are secure(of
> > > course i check them
> > > out every time because Im paranoid). Telling them that it is possible
> > > that some one spoofed their IP while sending me packets. But it could be
> > > port scanners who may own the other guys box or have an account there
> > > which allows
> > > them to portscan.
> > >
> > > By using the REJECTS to me seems it would possibly draw attention to
> > > these systems that are doing such naughty things when a netadmin
> > > hopefully sees the
> > > potentially hundreds of ICMP port unreachable coming in to his network
> > > headed
> > > for one machine. I know I have filters setup to see this kind of stuff
> > > and alert me to the possibility of a compromised machine.
> > >
> > > Im not trying to start a _Holy_war_ between DROP and REJECT fans, Just
> > > wondering what the consenses is here. What should a good netezen do these
> > > days.
> > >
> > > TIA
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chief Security Engineer | Daniel Fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
> 
> -- 
> Chief Security Engineer | Daniel Fairchild [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.
> 
> 

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