On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 6:39 PM, Kent Watsen <kwat...@juniper.net> wrote:
> Hi Alex, no objection. > > My support withdraw appears to put me in the rough, which is fine from a > process perspective. But make no mistake, I think that it's bizaar for a > "diff" to not show both values. Andy's idea to augment in an 'old-value' > node seems like a step in the right direction. > > The requirements and use-cases have not really been discussed first. If the use-case is for humans to compare the datastores (e.g., a side-by-side diff like an I-D) then the format would be very different than if the use-case was more programmatic (e.g., look for no diffs, look for an edit completed, patch a local copy). > Kent // contributor > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Clemm <alexander.cl...@huawei.com> > Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 6:06 PM > To: Kent Watsen <kwat...@juniper.net>, Ladislav Lhotka <lho...@nic.cz>, > Andy Bierman <a...@yumaworks.com>, Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwael...@jacobs-university.de>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org> > Subject: RE: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00 > > Which format to make mandatory sounds like something we can discuss in > Bangkok. The reason YANG-patch was chosen is reuse, although it is > certainly conceivable to develop another format. (Per discussion on the > list we will put the hooks in place to allow for other options.) Either > way, this seems to be one of the technical details that need to be decided, > not something that would make or break support as a whole? > --- Alex > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kwat...@juniper.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 10:17 AM > > To: Alexander Clemm <alexander.cl...@huawei.com>; Ladislav Lhotka > > <lho...@nic.cz>; Andy Bierman <a...@yumaworks.com>; Juergen > > Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwael...@jacobs-university.de>; netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff- > 00 > > > > I agree that a mandatory to implement format is desirable. > > > > I disagree that YANG-Patch is the right format, for reasons stated > before. I feel > > that a compromise of this sort for a mandatory-to-implement is wrong. > > > > If this is what the WG wants, I withdraw my support. > > > > Kent // contributor > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alexander Clemm <alexander.cl...@huawei.com> > > Date: Monday, October 8, 2018 at 5:05 PM > > To: Ladislav Lhotka <lho...@nic.cz>, Kent Watsen <kwat...@juniper.net>, > > Andy Bierman <a...@yumaworks.com>, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > <j.schoenwael...@jacobs-university.de>, "netmod@ietf.org" > > <netmod@ietf.org> > > Subject: RE: [netmod] WG adoption poll for draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff- > 00 > > > > I would second the request for one format (which is mandatory to > support), > > which must be specified. YANG-Patch is the logical candidate IMHO. > > > > To allow selection of other formats using an input parameter makes > sense, but > > adds some complexity from there: How to know which formats are > supported? > > (Add a list of supported formats somewhere?) Or simply rely on > augmentation > > for those implementations that want it? > > > > --- Alex > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod [mailto:netmod-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ladislav > > > Lhotka > > > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 12:50 AM > > > To: Kent Watsen <kwat...@juniper.net>; Andy Bierman > > > <a...@yumaworks.com>; Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- > > > university.de>; netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for > > > draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00 > > > > > > Kent Watsen <kwat...@juniper.net> writes: > > > > > > > Sure, one mandatory to implement format, others nice to have. > > > > Interoperability good. Agreed. > > > > > > > > But why YANG-patch and not something built for the purpose (e.g., > > > > YANG-diff) that, in particular, provides an actual diff as opposed > > > > to a data-tree operation that only shows one of the two values? > > > > > > Such a format can be developed independently, I would support it. > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > Kent // contributor > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/4/18, 3:27 PM, "Andy Bierman" > > > <a...@yumaworks.com<mailto:a...@yumaworks.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > <j.schoenwael...@jacobs-university.de<mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- > > > university.de>> wrote: > > > > Folks, the more formats there are, the less interoperability we get.. > > > > If there are multiple formats, is there a mandatory to implement > > > > format? Does the mandatory to implement format depend on the > > > > protocol that is being used? > > > > > > > > I prefer one format or if necessary I am fine with one mandatory to > > > > implement format. An open ended collection of implementation > > > > specific formats is super flexible but defeats the purpose of a > > > > standard, namely interoperability. > > > > > > > > I agree there needs to be 1 mandatory-to-implement format. > > > > > > > > IMO this needs to be YANG Patch because it is more precise then > > > > constructing an XML tree with operation attributes in it (e.g., how > > > > else do you represent a delete or a move?) Also, YANG Push is using > > > > YANG Patch format and common code for push and diff would be > possible. > > > > > > > > I think other formats should be allowed. > > > > This is very tool-specific. I could see how somebody might want a > > > > textual patch of the XML representation to produce the new XML > > > representation. > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 05:41:22PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > >> We agree that the diff-format should be client-selectable, modulo > > > >> what the > > > server supports. yang-patch and edit-config both are viable. Should > > > we document them both? > > > >> > > > >> That said, since neither edit-config nor yang-patch are diffing > > > >> formats, so > > > much as formats for converting one data tree to another, would it make > > > sense to define an actual diffing format? I would think that a diff > > > would provide both values, not just a new value. > > > >> > > > >> Kent // contributor > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: netmod > > > >> <netmod-boun...@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-boun...@ietf.org>> on behalf > > > >> of Ladislav Lhotka <lho...@nic.cz<mailto:lho...@nic.cz>> > > > >> Organization: CZ.NIC > > > >> Date: Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 1:11 PM > > > >> To: Robert Wilton <rwil...@cisco.com<mailto:rwil...@cisco.com>>, > > > >> "netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>" > > > >> <netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>> > > > >> Subject: Re: [netmod] WG adoption poll for > > > >> draft-clemm-netmod-nmda-diff-00 > > > >> > > > >> On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 14:17 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > On 04/10/2018 13:51, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > >> > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 13:36 +0100, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > >> > > > On 04/10/2018 11:14, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > >> > > > > Phil Shafer <p...@juniper.net<mailto:p...@juniper.net>> > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > Bal?zs Lengyel writes: > > > >> > > > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__to > > > >> > > > > > > ol > > > >> > > > > > > s.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dclemm-2Dnetmod-2Dnmda-2Ddiff-2D > > > >> > > > > > > 00 > > > >> > > > > > > &d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r > > > >> > > > > > > > > > =9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=7s6VdzzH9O > > > >> > > > > > > > > > l3BOCbVLBarBrQ5fD0vTt8k_I2KDEN97c&s=gQWJtjc_2EF3QgRvABgZK > > > >> > > > > > > sjqzuIw9yUq_xee6aFJOcw&e= > > > >> > > > > > [I've moved to a "deep lurker" role here, but ...] > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Can we ensure this model contains a "format" leaf in the > RPC's > > input > > > >> > > > > > so that future (and proprietary) formats can be > supported? That > > > >> > > > > > leaf can be an identityref that defaults to yang-patch. > > > >> > > > > I think this is a good idea. I would prefer the > > > >> > > > > edit-config format over YANG patch for describing a diff. > > > >> > > > > The edit-config format is more suited for this purpose imo.. > > > >> > > > +1 > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I would like something closer to edit-config to be available > > > >> > > > via RESTCONF as well. > > > >> > > YANG Patch is IMO better because it clearly separates the > > > >> > > target for the edits from the new content. > > > >> > > In edit-config these two are mixed together. > > > >> > Yes, that is primarily why I prefer the edit-config. I perceive > > > >> > that it is a denser and more efficient format. I think that it > > > >> > is both easier to construct (when diffing two trees) and also > > > >> > more efficient to apply when generating an updated tree. > > > >> > > > >> Except for certain corner cases, for example if two trees differ > > > >> only in the value of a single leaf but this leaf happens to be a > list key. > > > >> > > > >> Lada > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks, > > > >> > Rob > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > That being said, I support specifying format/media-type and > > > >> > > having potentially multiple options. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Lada > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > > > >> > > > Rob > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > /martin > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > > > > netmod mailing list > > > >> > > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > >> > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www..ie > > > >> > > > > tf > > > >> > > > > > > > .org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0U > > > >> > > > > jBXeMK- > > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjIS > > > >> > > > > > > > laJdcZo&m=7s6VdzzH9Ol3BOCbVLBarBrQ5fD0vTt8k_I2KDEN97c&s=RVJcg > > > >> > > > > 5pzHW-zi1OboCL4SX2huW9euHiVRSCor9n_APQ&e= > > > >> > > > > . > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > > > netmod mailing list > > > >> > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > >> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf > > > >> > > > .o > > > >> > > > > > > rg_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXe > > > >> > > > MK- > > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZ > > > >> > > > > > > o&m=7s6VdzzH9Ol3BOCbVLBarBrQ5fD0vTt8k_I2KDEN97c&s=RVJcg5pzHW-zi > > > >> > > > 1OboCL4SX2huW9euHiVRSCor9n_APQ&e= > > > >> -- > > > >> Ladislav Lhotka > > > >> Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > > >> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> netmod mailing list > > > >> netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_m > > > >> ai > > > >> lman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwICAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > > ndb3voDTX > > > >> > > > > > cWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=7s6VdzzH9Ol3 > > > BO > > > >> CbVLBarBrQ5fD0vTt8k_I2KDEN97c&s=RVJcg5pzHW- > > > zi1OboCL4SX2huW9euHiVRSCor > > > >> 9n_APQ&e= > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> netmod mailing list > > > >> netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_m > > > >> ailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwIFAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3v > > > >> > > oDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=DM1jsw > > nM > > > >> 48GwdI4tez-Jtf2ua2jvtLZVKfiwkbwbIrU&s=g0x_B- > > Xez7tD9hLX71D5vlcHdZohn > > > >> TkiMVIKJhAHivk&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > > > >> 3A__urldefense.proof&d=DwIFAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voD > > > >> > > TXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=DM1jswnM > > 48 > > > >> GwdI4tez- > > Jtf2ua2jvtLZVKfiwkbwbIrU&s=bzLaLoBCJ88laveupLqapYN4btjEBBv > > > >> NENNy09Tsooc&e= > > > >> point.com/v2/url?u=https- > > > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=D > > > >> wMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9E > > > >> PoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=O7d- > > > b9gyPvsasJo1ueKk3doDH7f5S5WQLo8_W6 > > > >> W3qt4&s=5LHhbfQZeoqYlC40T3mm-AEz4rSsyRWYjqTK7LuWTPw&e=> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | > Germany > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.jacobs- > > 2D&d=DwIFAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=D > > M1jswnM48GwdI4tez-Jtf2ua2jvtLZVKfiwkbwbIrU&s=5RD96- > > TjymU1ZhmfZFtWEm4abkkdaxqrkCKzuv4PZRQ&e= > > > university.de/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > > > 3A__www.jacobs- > > > 2Duniversity.de_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > > > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=O > > > 7d- > > > > > b9gyPvsasJo1ueKk3doDH7f5S5WQLo8_W6W3qt4&s=zh7qEPSmwviaSqZBqG1Gc > > > qItXwI9pwyqIFVW6xC8rK8&e=>> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org> > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_ma > > > > ilman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwIFAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voD > > > > > > TXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=DM1jswnM > > 48G > > > > wdI4tez-Jtf2ua2jvtLZVKfiwkbwbIrU&s=g0x_B- > > Xez7tD9hLX71D5vlcHdZohnTkiM > > > > VIKJhAHivk&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__u > > > > rldefense.proofp&d=DwIFAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcWz > > > > > > oCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=DM1jswnM48Gwd > > I4t > > > > ez-Jtf2ua2jvtLZVKfiwkbwbIrU&s=id5kdXDEb4afnobWT- > > fUq3YfsIkHooz5RtXYso > > > > QRt1o&e= > > > > oint.com/v2/url?u=https- > > > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwM > > > > FaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > > ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoO > > > > H7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=O7d- > > > b9gyPvsasJo1ueKk3doDH7f5S5WQLo8_W6W3qt > > > > 4&s=5LHhbfQZeoqYlC40T3mm-AEz4rSsyRWYjqTK7LuWTPw&e=> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_ma > > > > ilman_listinfo_netmod&d=DwIFAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voD > > > > > > TXcWzoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=DM1jswnM > > 48G > > > > wdI4tez-Jtf2ua2jvtLZVKfiwkbwbIrU&s=g0x_B- > > Xez7tD9hLX71D5vlcHdZohnTkiM > > > > VIKJhAHivk&e= > > > > > > -- > > > Ladislav Lhotka > > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mail > > > man_listinfo_netmod&d=DwIFAg&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- > > ndb3voDTXcW > > > > > zoCI&r=9zkP0xnJUvZGJ9EPoOH7Yhqn2gsBYaGTvjISlaJdcZo&m=DM1jswnM48Gw > > dI4te > > > z-Jtf2ua2jvtLZVKfiwkbwbIrU&s=g0x_B- > > Xez7tD9hLX71D5vlcHdZohnTkiMVIKJhAHi > > > vk&e= > > >
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