On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 8:42 AM Kent Watsen <[email protected]> wrote:

> [top-posting, as a contributor]
>
> I was discussing this issue with others during the Farewell reception.
>
> The best idea that surfaced was:
>
>
>    - add to Datatracker the ability to upload a ".tgz" file
>       - "tgz" is a file format that extracts a directory hierarchy
>    - require that the extracted directory contains a well-defined entry
>    point.
>       - this could be a file called "build.sh" or possibly "Makefile"
>    - the purpose of the entry point is to:
>       - validate examples (dynamically downloading dependencies)
>       - emit coverage statistics
>       - generate tree diagrams
>       - generate XML-file for `xml2rfc` (vis-a-vis Kramdown if needed).
>    - add to Datatracker the ability to also download the ".tgz" format of
>    the document (if available)
>
>
>
> Of course, the ".tgz" could be 1-1 to a GitHub repo, but this solution
> stops short of mandating GitHub because:
>
>    - Datatracker generally handles artifacts (the ".tgz" file)
>    - Concern for incorporating 3rd-party infrastructure
>
>
>
This seems like a good idea for authors of I-Ds.
Are you suggesting that non-authors would be required to maintain and use a
specific toolchain simply to read an Internet Draft?
Because there is no Internet Draft to read anymore?




> Kent
>
>
>
Andy


>
>
> On Nov 17, 2025, at 11:01 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Camilo,
>
> I've added Mahesh/Med to the thread.  I think that this is a conversation
> that would need to be had with IANA or the RFC Editor.  Arguably, I would
> think that the RFC editor could/should be the long-term home for these
> assets, but then that is not what is done with YANG Modules today, they are
> instead hosted by IANA, so perhaps that is the more pragmatic choice.
>
> I definitely agree about storing them on Github whilst the draft is being
> developed.  Ideally, we would have some tooling that manages all of these.
> This is similar what Med was doing with his YANG draft tooling project.  It
> is also similar to what I am doing for my drafts (but with different
> tooling that I started earlier and with a fast compile/resolve step), e.g.,
> https://github.com/rgwilton/draft-yp-observability/
>
> Here, I use a markdown file for the draft that imports the YANG examples,
> YANG code, tree diagrams etc, and a build file (
> https://github.com/rgwilton/draft-yp-observability/blob/main/build.mill)
> that stitches everything together, after compiling and validating the
> YANG and instance data examples, so if I update a YANG module and then save
> the file, then the build tool will automatically detect the change,
> revalidate the examples and report any errors, and then produce the updated
> html for the draft.  Tooling like this has some nice other properties since
> it will also download and extract the YANG files from all the RFCs and
> drafts that I depend on.  When I get a bit of time, I will probably try and
> refine this further, e.g., defining named schema associated with the
> instance data, automatically build instance data file versions of the
> examples, etc.
>
> Kind regards,
> Rob
>
>
> *From: *Camilo Cardona <[email protected]>
> *Date: *Monday, 17 November 2025 at 15:04
> *To: *Rob Wilton (rwilton) <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> <[email protected]>, Carsten Bormann <[email protected]>, Kent Watsen <
> [email protected]>
> *Cc: *[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Subject: *Re: [netmod] Re: Should example modules be allowed to use code
> tags [Re: AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-16]
>
> Hi Rob,
>
>
> How complicated is to find that “permanent” home? Github is, of course,
> ruled by a private company and I am not sure the process should depend on
> it.. We could always keep it on github until the release process where the
> files are then stored in the permanent home.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Camilo
>
>
> *From: *"Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <[email protected]>
> *Date: *Monday, 17 November 2025 at 04:37
> *To: *"[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Carsten
> Bormann <[email protected]>, Kent Watsen <[email protected]>
> *Cc: *"[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Camilo Cardona <
> [email protected]>
> *Subject: *Re: [netmod] Re: Should example modules be allowed to use code
> tags [Re: AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-16]
>
>
> Hi Benoit,
>
>
> My proposal (and what I mentioned in the WG) was slightly different:
>
>
> I don't think that we should require complete examples in the RFC.
> Specifically, I think that if we end up wrapping the examples with RFC 9195
> instance data + YANG library schema information, and bearing in mind the
> short line lengths allowed in RFCs, I think that we will find "extra noise"
> and a lot of line wrapping in the examples which will make them hard to
> read and understand, defeating the purpose of putting them in the document
> in the first place.
>
>
> I also don't think that we should putting the YANG modules into the RFCs,
> but that is part of the separate Veloce discussion.
>
>
> What I propose is:
>
>
>
>    1. Full compilable examples should be stored somewhere else, e.g., in
>    GitHub, or probably a more permanent home (e.g., IANA or RFC editor
>    website).  These should contain or reference any necessary extra metadata
>    (e.g., the associated schema, or the contents of datastores if validating
>    notifications).
>
>
>
>    2. Examples in documents should just be there to aid the reader
>    understand the main structure of the module.  They should be allowed to be
>    incomplete, or leave out long noisy fields (e.g., eliding long keys/hashes
>    in some of the crypto related drafts).  However, the shorter examples in
>    the draft should include a reference/link to where the full validatable
>    examples can be found.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *[email protected] <[email protected]>
> *Date: *Saturday, 15 November 2025 at 10:28
> *To: *Carsten Bormann <[email protected]>, Kent Watsen <[email protected]>
> *Cc: *[email protected] <[email protected]>, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <
> [email protected]>, Camilo Cardona <[email protected]>
> *Subject: *Re: [netmod] Re: Should example modules be allowed to use code
> tags [Re: AD review of draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-16]
>
> Dear all,
>
> I am trying to summarize the conclusions of this email thread, in light of
> the *draft-cardona-claise-onion-yang-coverage
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cardona-claise-onion-yang-coverage/>* 
> presentation
> in the NETMOD meeting:
> - We want to have instance examples next to the IETF YANG module. Granted
> - We want to have those instance examples WITHIN the same document as the
> YANG module. I guess so.
>     This is ideal but is it always possible, because there might be
> different contexts?
>     See Rob Wilton's comment in the *IETF 124 NETMOD meeting minutes
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-124-netmod-202511071430/>*
> - I understand that the community would like a different tags for the
> instances (next to CODE BEGINS/END)
>     And we have some in XML, great.
> - What I am not sure: do we also need the tags for the text draft/RFC
> (next to XML)?
>
> Where I would appreciate the help (of someone more clever that I): how to
> practically add those tags, when you start from editing markdown draft.
> A (process) example would be ideal.
>
> Thanks and regards, Benoit
>
> On Oct 13, 2025, at 16:30, Kent Watsen *<[email protected]> <[email protected]>* 
> wrote:
>
> I find that the ASCII-armor CODE BEGINS/CODE ENDS is an undesirable relic 
> from days before XML-based RFCs.  Now that RFCs are XML-native, better 
> constructs are possible.  I do not think that extracting from Text-formatted 
> RFCs is necessary.  Being able to extract from just XML is fine.  Therefore I 
> do NOT support adding support for code-tags for examples.
>
> RFCXML has markers= and related attributes name= etc. [1]; you never type 
> CODE BEGINS/ENDS.
>
> There is no need to ever apply heuristics to pull source from plaintext 
> renderings any more.
>
>
>
> Try kramdown-rfc-extract-sourcecode on the XML if you need a tool.
>
> Try *https://tzi.de/~cabo/i-d <https://tzi.de/~cabo/i-d>* or /rfc for a 
> prototype of the “RFC filesystem” I’m proposing (not recently updated though).
>
>
>
> Grüße, Carsten
>
>
>
> [1]: *https://authors.ietf.org/rfcxml-vocabulary#markers 
> <https://authors.ietf.org/rfcxml-vocabulary#markers>*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> netmod mailing list -- *[email protected] <[email protected]>*
>
> To unsubscribe send an email to *[email protected] 
> <[email protected]>*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list -- [email protected]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list -- [email protected]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

Reply via email to