9/15/02 10:16:50 PM, et <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Sunday 15 September 2002 10:26 pm, you wrote:
>> >et wrote:
>> >> Capital investment would be the main reason. not everyone is born wealth
>> >> enough to go to college, much less be able to survive and put down the
>> >> Capital to start a business. Not everyone is so low on scruples that
>> >> they would be willing to "float a check, and a big one" to start a
>> >> company. Some folks even go so far as to believe that if you can't do it
>> >> legal you should not do it, and last I heard, it is still against the
>> >> law to kite checks.
>>
>> OOHH I am soo sorry you have spent way to much time in school (probably
>> a liberal school at that) and much too much time listening to the media, it
>> has twisted your mind into beleaving all the BS they have fed you.
>> Sorry but a large amount of capital is not needed to start a business and
>> a college education is not needed eather.
>I am not a college grad, and have had my own business. I am sorry that you
>read into that that i thought only college educated folks should go into
>business... that was not my intent. altho I guess we could both consider not
>buying into a lot of what we hear.
>
>> About 15 years ago I decided I had about all I could take of coperate
>> America. One saturday morning I got up early took a drive into Chicago,
>> went to a industrial supply dealer, purchased a milling machine with a Visa
>> card, also picked up a $150 band saw, rented a U Haul truck Hauled all the
>> stuff back home and stuck it in my 2 car garage, in a residential neighbor
>> hood. Guess I am one of those law breakers that you aree talking about
>> after all I did not have the proper zoneing to run a buisness there. OOHH
>> NO I also bid not bother to get a business license.
>so just hwere do you draw the line with following the law...
I draw the line where what I consider common sense tells me to draw it.
I tend to lean on Gods 10 commandments to make that sort of decision.
should everyone
>be just like you?
Only if they want to be. This was a reply to the first paragraph where you
implied that it was impossible to start a business without a college education or a
large amount of investment capitol.
do you truly believe that you are capable of deciding what
>laws are for each person?
No but I am capable of deciding what laws are to insane or stupid for me to
worry about , and as best as I can tell what I do on my own property with my
own property that has no negative effect on other people is my own business and
any law that says otherwise has just gone to far. If somebody else belives
otherwise they can tangle their lives up with as much paperwork as they so desire.
are you capible of decideing who should be allowed
>to give birth, cause I am pretty sure the world needs someone like that...
>keep the poor and un-employeed from reproducing and as some one elso
pointed
Did I imply any of that? If so that was not my wish to do so.
What I did say was that A large bank roll and college education are in no way
mandatory for starting a business or having it be successfull And then went on to
prove that from my personal experance. I also implied that people that really
beleave there are no good jobs or employers to be found can get out and start
their own business and that lack of large amounts of capitol or education is a poor
excuse not to.
>out the poor are more likely to become un-employyed and take food from the
>Bosses mouth rather than start a company and produce jobs from thin air, as
>employeers do now, since according to some folks here, it is not customers or
>need that creates jobs and employment, it is the bosses that do that. if we
>could prevent the poor (and stupid, as well as the ignorant) from reproducing
>we could have so much more for thus of us who are employers to eat.
>Really I call what you claim as "your company" a shade tree, not a company.
>Companies have LIc. and Insurance and have to obey the same laws as every
>other company. I was not aware of the "enron" rule, where really smart people
>get to make up the rules they intend to follow and leave the rest of the laws
>and rules for us poor folks.
>
>
>> At any rate I wired up
>> and leveled all the stuff along with my old miller welder and the following
>> Monday I went into business! Oh did I mention that some years I had been
>> thrown out of high school half way through my freshman year and never went
>> back. Guess me and the public education system just did not see eye to eye.
>> I felt that I was wasting my time in school and they felt they were wasting
>> their time on me. I feel that I learned much more practical knowlage out of
>> school than I ever could have in school Yep thats right started a business
>> with next to no money and not a lot of education.
>again you started working under a tree, Working under a tree? No I started
working in MY 2 car garage. Is there something wrong with starting out small with
what you can afford. Is there something wrong with producing QUALITY goods
in spite of being in less than ideal work place? FYI we have come a long way
since then.
and stole from the Government (and
>therfore stole from every single member of you community, since they had to
>make up the tax base that you legally should have paid.
Did I say that I did not in the past or do not now pay taxes? If so show me
where. I shure as hell paid enough Property taxes on that peice of property And I
might add by sometimes working most of the night and weekends I kept
production lines at other businesses running where other people could not deliver
the required goods to do that in the time frame needed to do that to allow these
other companys to keep a line running , to make more profit and thus pay more
taxes. All that I did say is that I did not bother with getting a business license and
that was more to save all the paperwork, the at least 30day delay and get around
the building and zoneing laws. So I may have cheated the city out of a few dollors
for some B.S. license big deal. IMHO A person should not need a licanse to
earn a living espically when doing the type of work that I do where the general
public is not in any way involved .
do you not bother to
>pay all the income tax you should, since you own a company and can (if you
>ever decided to save your coins and get a Business Lic.) deduct all kinds of
>living expenses as business expenses.
Do you have any idea of what the hell you are talking about? just any idea at
all??? A person does not need a business license to pay taxes or use deductions
Except in some cases perhaps to pay or use deductions for some sort of city or
county tax. Speaking of that, the line of work that I am in in the location that I am
in is not required to pay any special taxes. Maybe you are thinking of sales tax or
something. I do not have the time to nor do I wish to Quote all the local, state and
federal tax codes that apply.
Do you take a deduction for a company
>vehicle that really your wife drives, but since the company owns it and all
>it is a deduction that no worker could take?
No we take a mileage deduction and very little at that. nowbeing in a VERY
RURAL area almost all materials and suplies are shiped to us just like almost all
our finished products are shipped out.
Oh and by the way any employe for any company that uses his vehicle for
company business is able to take the same deduction.
What my federal taxes have to do with a business license is beyond me.
>> I will admit that it was a uphill battle the first few years. My wife and
>> I kept our full time jobs and worked in our shop the rest of the time. We
>> put in a lot of 16 to 18 hour days and a lot of 7 day weeks. It did not
>> take to long and we got a surface grinder, them a lathe, a fairly big one
>> at that (20 inch swing and 8 foot bed) next a second milling machine and
>> more and more stuff as time went by. After about 3 years the 2 jobs had
>> gotten to be too much. I had not had time to worry about the bookwork I had
>> left that to my wife, She had also put in a lot of long days and nights
>> with me running machines in the shop. One Monday morning I did my usual
>> rutine, Got up at 4 AM had a quick cup of coffee, took the rest of the pot
>> to the shop with me. By 5 AM I realised all the long days and 7 day work
>> weeks had caught up with me, I was soo tired that I could not think
>> straight enough to do the type of precision work that I had to do, I walked
>> back to the house, my wife was just about to go out and start work also and
>> I stoped her and asked how the books looked. She said very good and
checked
>> for exact details. She had just paid all the business bills a few days
>> before and we had over 20,000 out in billing due in the next 30 days. I
>> stoped and had a nice big long breakfast and several cups of coffee and a
>> hour latter called into my full time job and told them I would be taking a
>> vacation day and also gave them 2 weeks notice. My wife left her full time
>> job about 3 weeks latter.A lot of things have changed since then, my wife
>> and I are both self employed and have relocated about 600 miles south where
>> we dont have to worry about zoneing , business permits and all that crap.
>would that be mexico? since I am pretty damn sure every state requires
>Insurance and crap like that... little things like safety always are such a
>boor, and take away from the really fun work
>
>> Some times we employ a lot of temperary help but most of the time it is
>> stilljust the 2 of us, we like it that way. We actually turn away a lot of
>> work and pick and choose our customers. We arn't getting rich, we could I
>> think if we wanted to but we are just to happy to want to. We have several
>> customers from half way accross the United States ship us machinary for
>> rebuilding , reengineering and numerus electrical and mechanical upgrades.
>> And lots of local customers also.
>>
>> It took a lot of busting ass. and plenty of blood, sweat, tears and
>> personal sacrifice but we made it starting out with next to no money or
>> formal education.
>>
>> Bottom line anyone can do it if they try hard enough. I have proved it!
>> So I really do not care to here any wineing crap like you are trying to
>> dish out. As much as I dislike most of coperate America I really do not
>> care to here how you poor underprivliged just cant make it
>just don't call _ME_ "you poor underprivliged" cause I ain't either of those.
>and I don't believe anyone said "I" or "We can't make it". Hopefully my point
>was more along the lines of those that do get out "busting ass. and plenty of
>blood, sweat, tears and personal sacrifice" deserve a better life than those
>that demand someone else provide the "busting ass. and plenty of blood,
>sweat, tears and personal sacrifice" and then they collect the money,
>claiming that since they "put it all on the line for their company" they
>deserve more. I did not say it was real, just what I think.
>
>
>
>> Marc
>I really basicly agree with everthing, and admire you for having gotenn out
>there, and putting your own sweat into the work counts a lot.
Thank you
I call
>"actually turn away a lot of work and pick and choose our customers" the joy
>of being underpaid.
Maybe , but we also provide a unique set of services that other companys do not
seem to want to bother with these days. Maybe because the education system
teaches them that things are just not done the way I do them, however there seems
to be a big demand. I can sat that because the only money we have spent in
advertising is a couple hundred dollors worth of business cards. Not even a add in
the yellow pages.
the only point I want to make here, is; "there by the
>grace of God go I". shit can happen to anyone, luck and providence can happen
>to anyone. these are random and chaotic (or if you like, the grace of god),
>not something your bright brain or tough sinue brought to you. how many
>times, when you were tired after all that long days, could you have made a
>minor slip on the floor, and stuck out your hand to steady yourself. and
>caught your shirt (or hair) in the spinning lathe? if you had, would you
>still have the same attitude? what if, while you were in the bathroom taking
>a leak, a local customer came into the shop, picked up the chuck key and
>stuck it into the lathe chuck key hole (on the "other side of the lathe from
>your workside, thinking they were going to help you out), and when you got
>done dealing with them you went back to your work on the lathe, but as soon
>as you turned on the lathe power switch, the key flung out and hit you in the
>face, or went thru your rib cage.
Well I have had my share of problems and with some of them a lot of people
would have just kicked back and collected some kind of disiabilty check but I did
continue to keep going as best I could even if only giving directions to others. And
yes I am shure some luck did come in to play and also a good measure of grace of
god and that I do give thanks for, however maybe not as often as I should.
Sorry for the SLOW reply, I been busyer than a cat covering up turds
Marc
>
>
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