Hi All,

I forgot to mention that the link I provided for Cochran's work is for
the transmitters he is using but it talks about a different project. For
the acoustic study he analyzed the same channel for calls instead of
counting wing-beats. These transmitters have 2 channels, one a tracking
signal and the other the audio stream.

Mike

Michael Lanzone
[email protected]



On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Michael Lanzone <[email protected]>wrote:

> Jessie and Mike, I will answer both of your posts in more detail later
> when I have time, but to my knowledge there has only been one person to
> collect definitive data on call rates of birds during nocturnal migration
> (from know individuals). It was on was on Swainson's Thrushes where he had
> a transmitter attached to it during nocturnal migration transmitting  back
> to a vehicle to be recorded via radio. I saw a partial manuscript on this
> several years ago, I hope it gets published, its an invaluable study. Here
> is a short excerpt from Cochran's study-
> http://www.inhs.illinois.edu/inhsreports/sep-oct97/migrants.html
>
> One of the published papers out there dealing with this is the Farnsworth
> et.al. paper- "A comparison of nocturnal call counts of migrating birds
> and reflectivity measurements on Doppler radar"
>
> Mike
>
> Michael Lanzone
> [email protected]
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Mike Farmer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>   Thanks everyone....I wish there was a central place for all your
>> knowledge for us newbies to peruse.   It would make getting started
>> easier....but maybe less fun in the floundering?
>>
>> I’ve had this discussion with a bunch of people just starting to record
>> or who have given up after attempting to record.  It seems to be a
>> naturally progression that newby’s like myself take.   First, we are amazed
>> at how well the detectors will find such small packets of energy above the
>> background noise.  Then we go into near depression because a beautiful OVEN
>> bird zeep is some how missed.   Then horror that my big night of 500 calls
>> could have been 750 if I would just wade through 20,000 false positives
>> instead of 3,000.
>>
>> The OLDBIRD detectors and Raven Pro detector....to name the only two I
>> have used....are amazing detectors.   State of the art for what they do.
>> But the background noise is varying so rapidly and randomly that some calls
>> are missed and false detection are many.
>>
>> It is at this point that the newby must decide.   What am I trying to
>> do?   For me, I finally realized that I want as unbiased a sample of the
>> birds calling over my house as I can get and I want a sufficient sample.
>> A good number, that is.   I’m not so concerned that I get every call that
>> my mic hears as long as I don’t miss OVEN birds at a higher rate than CCSP,
>> for instance.   But I also don’t want just 10% of the calls because
>> although that may be good enough for the many CCSP, it may not be enough
>> OVEN birds calls to analysize.
>>
>> Notice that I said that I want an unbiased sample of the birds
>> calling.....not that I am getting an unbiased sample of the birds flying
>> over my house.   Sure, I would want that but apparently you professionals
>> haven’t even determined what the call rate of each species is.  So we
>> newbies have to realize that we are in no way counting how many birds fly
>> over our house.   Right?   Do I have that right?
>>
>> But when I read your professional papers and talk to the gurus like BIll
>> Evans, I see that we can talk about changes in the proportion of the calls
>> of each species.    At least until you professionals give us more ways to
>> crunch the statistics.
>>
>> Sorry for the mini-rant.   I think newbies should be less frustrated by
>> missed calls than we just naturally seem to be.   The pursuit of perfection
>> should not be the enemy of the good.
>>
>> -Mike Farmer
>> -Oldbird and Raven Pro detectors are great....newbies, use them!
>>
>>   *From:* Lewis Grove <[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 11, 2012 8:26 AM
>> *To:* Andrew Albright <[email protected]>
>> *Cc:* Mike Farmer <[email protected]> ; NFC-L <[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nfc-l] Austin, Tx - Hourly count - Through May 7, 2012
>>
>> Hi Andrew and all,
>>
>> Automated detection of calls is a tricky business, though it is
>> relatively easy to figure out the proportion of calls that you are actually
>> pulling out - just count calls manually, screen by screen and then see how
>> many your detectors find.  We looked at 90 different random 15-minute
>> segments from three different recording sites, using multiple observers to
>> find the total number of calls present.
>>
>> Basically, depending on the software package and the parameter
>> combinations you use (SNR and occupancy are the big ones other than having
>> your time and frequency bounds correct), you can get wildly different
>> proportions, ranging from near zero to near 100% of calls.  I can't
>> remember the exact numbers but I believe Tseep-x finds something just shy
>> of 50% of the warbler/sparrow calls present in a file.  Other factors come
>> in to play here too - background noise (insects) particularly.
>>
>> Hopefully all of this data (there's a lot) will someday see the light of
>> day in a journal - it's overdue.
>>
>> Lewis
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Andrew Albright <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike - I enjoy reading your reports, so keep 'em coming!
>>>
>>> I'm no expert, but I think when I asked the question before it seems
>>> that the general idea is that nfc are easier to detect in the first
>>> couple of hours and then around dawn as birds will be flying at lower
>>> elevations (and they can get so high that you can't detect nfc).  But
>>> I don't know how much data supports this hypothesis and it's quite
>>> possible that it's from East Cost migration which could be
>>> significantly different from that seen in Texas.
>>>
>>> I have one question - have you ever gone through an hour or a night of
>>> your data to see/hear how well the automatic detection works?
>>> Also, what % of nfc can you not assign to a certain species?
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Mike Farmer <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Since March 1, our Austin city station has recorded 4250 night
>>> calls.   The
>>> > quieter station 10 miles to the west had 6372.   See the attached graph
>>> > showing the number of calls per hour of the night.  This is for the
>>> quiet
>>> > station.
>>> >
>>> > This chart seems rather too convenient.  I am suspicious of it.  What
>>> is
>>> > known about this kind of timing?  The curve matches the inverse of the
>>> > relative quiet of a typical night.   Life is just quieter in the
>>> middle of
>>> > the night.   So can’t a lot of this be a detector and noise effect?
>>> Or do
>>> > the birds actually fly and call more in the middle of the night?
>>> >
>>> > Also this data doesn’t adjust for daylight savings shift in the third
>>> week
>>> > of March or the fact that dusk shifts to later times as spring
>>> progresses.
>>> > What we really want to plot is the hour after dusk not the actual
>>> time.  But
>>> > has anyone here figured out a formula for the number of minutes each
>>> night
>>> > that dusk shifts?  You can google this and get a bunch of graphs but
>>> there
>>> > must be a formula ..... probably involving a bunch of cosines and other
>>> > witchcraft?
>>> >
>>> > -Mike Farmer
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > equipment
>>> >
>>> > Mic – Oldbird 21c
>>> >
>>> > Software – Oldbird tseep, thrush, GlassOFire, Raven Pro, Excel
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > NFC-L List Info:
>>> > Welcome and Basics
>>> > Rules and Information
>>> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>> > Archives:
>>> > The Mail Archive
>>> > Surfbirds
>>> > BirdingOnThe.Net
>>> > Please submit your observations to eBird!
>>> > --
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> NFC-L List Info:
>>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC_WELCOME
>>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC_RULES
>>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC-L_SubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
>>>
>>> ARCHIVES:
>>> 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html
>>> 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NFC-L
>>> 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NFCL.html
>>>
>>> Please submit your observations to eBird:
>>> http://ebird.org/content/ebird/
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Grove
>> PhD Student, Wildlife Ecology
>> President, Graduate Student Association
>> SUNY *E*nvironmental *S*cience and *F*orestry
>> (814) 880 - 5667
>>
>>
>> --
>> *NFC-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC_WELCOME>
>> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC_RULES>
>> Subscribe, Configuration and 
>> Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/NFC-L_SubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm>
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html>
>> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NFC-L>
>> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NFCL.html>
>> *Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>
>> !*
>> --
>>
>
>

--

NFC-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC_WELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC_RULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NFC-L_SubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NFC-L
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NFCL.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Reply via email to